Abortion

[gwia]

Because we haven't had this one in a while.

[MrNaPaLm32]

Well, it really can't be decided necessarily from a logical standpoint.

While biologically, a fetus cannot survive if cut out of the womb, therefore it is not considered its own individual.

However people argue that it WOULD become a baby. This would render things like spermicide and condoms murder weapons.

Killing a woman even on her first official day of pregnancy would count as a double-homicide.

So I've decided that due to the legal repercussions following an overturn of Roe vs. Wade, Abortion should simply remain as it is.

And the Roe vs. Wade decision likely will not be challenged for a very long time. Since the Supreme Court has already ruled on the legality of abortion, they are unlikely to take a new case so soon. It took the supreme court 60 years to overturn Plessy vs. Ferguson, in Brown vs. Board of Education. That case was brought about by an entire ERA of civil rights reform. I don't think a whole political and social era about abortion will evolve in any way shape or form.

Simply put, Abortion is here to stay. And its not murdering babies, because they're not babies.

Thats my 2 bits.

[Natus Lumen]

I think I pretty much agree with Napalm. Although, I don't consider it human if it doesn't have a heartbeat. I consider it a former human or human to be. So if you kill a baby before it has a heartbeat, I don't care. It's the product of someone's mistake. Shit happens. But if it has a heartbeat and something you do makes the heart stop beating, then in my eyes, you murdered it.

[Pink_Floyd1993]

I agree with both of neverender and napalm. In addition to it all, I'd just say that no matter what the stances are that it would be a baby or not. It's not really us to say for its the womans right to do what she wants to her body and wether she wants a child or not is not for us to say. Also, when at one point they tried to ban abortion, It most certaintly did not help one bit. Woman didnt want to have children enough to kill the child themselves with coathangers. Yeah. Gross, Exactly why I'm in a half pro choice stance.

[Sen]

I agree that the law should leave the decision to the mother. This is not a theocracy, and people are free to make their own decisions. But the question didn't ask if I thought laws should be changed, it asked for my moral opinion (I'm taking liberties). If Years down the road my daughter comes home and asks for an abortion I'll say no flat out. Think of all the mistakes in the world? Supposed Einstein's father pulled out like he was supposed to? What if Bush Senior... Nevermind.

[gwia]

I really do think it's the womans choice, especially after my friend Jade had one, and Taryn had one too, except she was bitching because it was like $300 or something.

[MeTal CaNdYcaNe]

I'm pro choice. Not that I think it's necessarily kind to kill a soon to be living thing, but what if a girl was raped at 12? She could die in childbirth, abortion would probably be what she chooses. Plus, in other circumstances when it's someone's own fault, it's going to be them who has to deal with the guilt of doing it. Or, feeling better for not bringing a baby who wouldn't be loved into the world.

[Sen]

I agree. America is a secular government not a Theocracy. As far as the State should be concerned, this a morality issue, not a legal one. Shit, I said that above, didn't I?

[MrNaPaLm32]

Originally Posted by SenTheDeathAngel

I agree. America is a secular government not a Theocracy. As far as the State should be concerned, this a morality issue, not a legal one. Shit, I said that above, didn't I?

If It weren't a legal issue, why would the supreme court have taken a case on it?

[gabrielwhist]

I'm pro abortion.

[MrNaPaLm32]

Seems as though this thread will end without an argument.

[gabrielwhist]

Na ah. I said I am pro abortion not pro choice. As in, every baby should be aborted. The mother shouldn't have a choice.
Now.
YELL AT ME!

[gwia]

Babies are stupid and gross.

[gussa]

Originally Posted by gabrielwhist

Na ah. I said I am pro abortion not pro choice. As in, every baby should be aborted. The mother shouldn't have a choice.
Now.
YELL AT ME!

GARBLE GARBLE GARBLE GARBLE GARBLE!!!!!!!

[viper.gtsr]

I hate babies.

[Snow]

Ok, this is my long winded answer.

I don't believe the bible or anything, but everyone always asks why people who commit suicide go to hell right along with the murderers. This is because when you murder someone, the sin isn't against the person, it's against the family and friends who have lost them. When a baby is in the womb, no one has become attached to it yet.

Also, I don't think babies aren't babies in the womb until later on. If they were, that should make morning after pills illegal if abortion was. Fact is; people have unprotected sex (or even some do have protected but it fails) and get pregnant. Pregnancy can ruin a life for a women, and the women that are getting abortions probably still will even when it's illegal.

[Willy_Wonka]

In Soviet Russia, babies abort YOU!!

[Natus Lumen]

Originally Posted by MeTal CaNdYcaNe

I'm pro choice. Not that I think it's necessarily kind to kill a soon to be living thing, but what if a girl was raped at 12? She could die in childbirth, abortion would probably be what she chooses. Plus, in other circumstances when it's someone's own fault, it's going to be them who has to deal with the guilt of doing it. Or, feeling better for not bringing a baby who wouldn't be loved into the world.

Um. For rape, you can go to the doctor (well, you would probably be there anyway if you were raped) and he/she'll give you a prescription for the 'morning after' pill, which is self-explanatory. But a lot of women apparently obtain them illegally for...obvious reasons.

Okay, think about this: Some woman in Ireland (about whom we have few details) in the seventies got pregnant, decided to go ahead and have the child, and gave it up for adoption. The child was adopted by very wealthy parents and taken to America. The child grew up, got married, and had children. One of those children is my girlfriend. So if abortion were widespread, my girlfriend would probably not exist. So god knows that the choice affects so so so many people on inconceivable levels. Of course, if she didn't exist I wouldn't be aware that she might have existed, but that's a whole other thing. In other words, butterfly effect. I mean, if you believe that everything happens for a reason, and the end result will all work out for the better (as many religions believe), then saying you're pro-choice is kinda stupid.

Anyway, I hear all these stories about pregnant teens. My mom directs a program which provides services for chicks that get knocked up in high school. I think my mom's all about pro-choice, but most of the people that got pregnant didn't believe in birth control in the first place, so abortion is, a lot of the time, culturally unacceptable.

[Zetex]

I survived abortion

[gabrielwhist]

Originally Posted by Neverender.

Um. For rape, you can go to the doctor (well, you would probably be there anyway if you were raped) and he/she'll give you a prescription for the 'morning after' pill, which is self-explanatory. But a lot of women apparently obtain them illegally for...obvious reasons.
Okay, think about this: Some woman in Ireland (about whom we have few details) in the seventies got pregnant, decided to go ahead and have the child, and gave it up for adoption. The child was adopted by very wealthy parents and taken to America. The child grew up, got married, and had children. One of those children is my girlfriend. So if abortion were widespread, my girlfriend would probably not exist. So god knows that the choice affects so so so many people on inconceivable levels. Of course, if she didn't exist I wouldn't be aware that she might have existed, but that's a whole other thing. In other words, butterfly effect. I mean, if you believe that everything happens for a reason, and the end result will all work out for the better (as many religions believe), then saying you're pro-choice is kinda stupid.
Anyway, I hear all these stories about pregnant teens. My mom directs a program which provides services for chicks that get knocked up in high school. I think my mom's all about pro-choice, but most of the people that got pregnant didn't believe in birth control in the first place, so abortion is, a lot of the time, culturally unacceptable.

I don't think abortion is ever culturally unacceptable. It is the woman's choice and no law should be able to prevent it.

[Sen]

I agree with Neverender. Think of all the Bonos in the world. If Marshall Mathers had been aborted, 2002 would've sucked.

[gabrielwhist]

Color me confused. You think abortion is wrong because the fetus may grow up to be, or give birth to, someone important to you or the world? Lame.

[The Perfect Seven]

Sorry but I find it impossible to support abortion in any way shape or form, considering my bioligical mother was like 17 when she got pregnant and I very well could have been aborted. So I don't think that because your egg got fertilized "by accident" doesn't justify the murder of a living thing. I don't think we have the right to trivialize human life like that. Every human being has a right to life no matter if they are "wanted" or not (and it goes without saying that there are tons of couples who can't have kids who wait years to adopt).

And someone said "what if a 12 year old girl is raped and gets pregnant," but think about it, how many of the millions of abortions every year are because of rape, much less of 12-year-olds? People 15 and under only make up 1% of all abortions. We can't use anomalies like teenage pregnancy, rape and incest to justify the 99% of other abortions that happen for less socially acceptable reasons.

[gabrielwhist]

1.) If you find it impossible to support abortion in anyway shape or form, then you do believe that rape victims, pregnant teens, and incest pregnancy should be forced to have their child.
2.) a fetus is not a living thing of its own, its part of the womens body.
3.) Consider yourself lucky to be alive, cuz if I were your mama you probly woulda been aborted.
4.) ALL life is trivial.
5.) Whether or not its legal, abortion is gonna happen. Personally I would prefer it happens safely in a clinic, than with a rusty clothes hanger on a piece of cardboard in a dirty alley.

[The Perfect Seven]

Originally Posted by gabrielwhist

1.) If you find it impossible to support abortion in anyway shape or form, then you do believe that rape victims, pregnant teens, and incest pregnancy should be forced to have their child.

Yes, incest and rape are horrible things, but just because a horrible thing happened to you doesn't give you the right to do a horrible thing to someone else.

Have you ever read about how abortions are performed or seen what the aftermath of an abortion looks like? Most people think "oh it's just a bundle of cells that doesn't feel pain" but in most cases, these are human beings with their own heartbeat, lungs, nervous system, faces and fingers and toes. I fail to see the logic in saying that it's wrong to kill a baby outside the womb, but it's perfectly okay to tear a child limb from limb while its inside the womb.

And to say "women will do it anyway" is like saying we should legalize bank robbery because "people will do it anyway." We might as well make it safer for the burglars to obtain what they're trying to steal, right? The law needs to protect potential victims, not potential assailants. And seeing that abortion rates nearly tripled after its legalization in '73, the truth is most women really aren't desperate enough to stick a rusty coat hanger up their vagina.