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Old 12-23-2008, 02:00 PM   #1
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Default How Can You Blindly Follow Christianity?

How can you do that when it's been essentially proven that nearly all of the stories in the bible are just a gigantic metaphor for the sun and constellations and/or plagiarized from other religions/stories?

Do you believe Jesus truly existed and did all of those miracles?
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Old 12-23-2008, 02:13 PM   #2
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No, I don't
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Old 12-23-2008, 03:13 PM   #3
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Well, for the most part the less-believable stories have been true, and archeology proves that. I would say that in the spirit of the day many of the stories are metaphors for a bigger picture. The biggest reference I noticed was the three white horsemen in Revelation that destroy the world, which I equivocated to a celestial event such as 3 comets striking the earth, meteors, or equivalent.

And Jesus definitely existed, there are more than a few hundred references to him in Roman literature.

So while I do have a problem with people who just believe every single world the book has in a literal interpretation, I don't have an issue with people who try to make logical sense about what is being said.
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Old 12-23-2008, 04:54 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by MrNaPaLm32 View Post
And Jesus definitely existed, there are more than a few hundred references to him in Roman literature.
Jesus himself is a metaphor for the sun. There were only 4 historians during the days Jesus was apparently around that make any reference at all that could vaguely imply his existence.
All four quotes only mentioned "christ" which means the anointed.

I would like you to cite some of the Roman literature from during the time Jesus existed, please.

--

I really don't have a problem with Christians; nearly all of my friends are Christians. As long as they don't try forcing it onto me or constantly reference their lord and savior every other sentence then I don't really give a shit about what their religious beliefs are.
But it's just baffling to me how Christianity is still around and thriving since it's clearly a pile of shit.

Last edited by Zetex; 12-23-2008 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 12-23-2008, 05:34 PM   #5
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ZETEX, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL


ololololo
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:53 PM   #6
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I don't really care anymore. Merry Christmas. I'm getting loads of shit. That's enough too make me believe.

Even though I don't.
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Old 12-24-2008, 02:05 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Zetex View Post
Jesus himself is a metaphor for the sun. There were only 4 historians during the days Jesus was apparently around that make any reference at all that could vaguely imply his existence.
All four quotes only mentioned "christ" which means the anointed.

I would like you to cite some of the Roman literature from during the time Jesus existed, please.
Dead sea scrolls is the biggest that comes to mind.

upon further review...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

take a read, its quite lengthy.

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I really don't have a problem with Christians; nearly all of my friends are Christians. As long as they don't try forcing it onto me or constantly reference their lord and savior every other sentence then I don't really give a shit about what their religious beliefs are.
But it's just baffling to me how Christianity is still around and thriving since it's clearly a pile of shit.
Well, I wouldn't consider it to be a piece of shit. I mean, Christianity in general defines the morals of modern society. The amount of aid provided to various other countries by christian missions, by organizations like The Christian Reformed World Relief Committee, is astounding. Not to mention the Salvation Army.
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:19 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by MrNaPaLm32 View Post
Dead sea scrolls is the biggest that comes to mind.

upon further review...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

take a read, its quite lengthy.
http://members.cox.net/deleyd/religi...astrology.html
http://exchristian.net/testimonies/2...us-is-sun.html

I highly recommend you watch The Greatest Story Ever Told. It's pretty interesting.
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Old 12-24-2008, 03:38 PM   #9
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I highly recommend you watch The Greatest Story Ever Told. It's pretty interesting.
I've seen that movie. It was a really long time ago, and as I understand its incredibly long.

and as far as those two articles are concerned, none of them hold research accreditation or are written by a person with the qualifications to write a research document. While they do use a certain logic to try to prove a point, its just some person in their room making references. As far as I'm concerned, they hold about the same prestige as the Loose Change documentary.

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Nevertheless, the historicity of Jesus is accepted by almost all Biblical scholars and classical historians. James Dunn describes the mythical Jesus theory as a 'thoroughly dead thesis'.[88][89][90][91]
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Old 12-24-2008, 03:52 PM   #10
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Nevertheless, the historicity of Jesus is accepted by almost all Biblical scholars and classical historians. James Dunn describes the mythical Jesus theory as a 'thoroughly dead thesis'.
Interesting how historians accept his existence when there is no mention of Jesus himself by any historians that were around while Jesus was supposed to be around performing his miracles. You would think someone performing incredible miracles like that would get mentioned more.
Pliny the Younger only mentions Christians but never mentions Jesus. Tacitus does but that was after a century of Jesus's assumed existence.
The closest thing during the time is from Josephus, and he mentions John the Baptist and never says a thing about Jesus Christ.

There may have been a man named Jesus but there is no way any of the stories about him are more than partially true; he was more than likely just a cult leader. The story of Jesus is just a metaphor of the sun passing through the Zodiac constellation. Jesus's ministry lasts a year; the sun completes its trip around the zodiac in a year. Jesus has twelve disciples; the year has twelve months. The sun "dies" on December 22nd (the winter solstice) and is "reborn" on the 25th; Jesus dies on the 22nd and resurrects 3 days later on the 25th.
It's funny because Jesus himself was plagiarized from other myths of the past, who also died and were resurrected on the same days as Jesus and the sun, which brings me to another point. History sort of led up to Jesus's story. He's plagiarized from multiple other stories. That's why the dead sea scrolls are thought to be about him, when in reality they're more than likely referring to other myths. The dead sea scrolls never mention Jesus's name nor do they mention any of his followers' names from the New Testament.

Last edited by Zetex; 12-24-2008 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 12-24-2008, 05:38 PM   #11
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Some people just like to comforted by faith, knowing that there is something out there that will always love you unconditionaly. Just because you think that it's full of crap doesn't mean that it doesn't mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. The basic fundamentals of Christianity and most major religions is love, some people interpret it in different ways and so we have the extremesits (Westboro Baptist Church) but every religion has that.
Why do Athiests feel it neccesary to bash Christianity and only Christianty, does it make you feel better than others to try and shit all over their beliefs, bashing religions a little immature. Not all christians are fundies and bible bashers that are gonna try to convert you, most aren't.
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Old 12-24-2008, 05:41 PM   #12
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when was the last time you saw someone come door-to-door preaching buddhism?
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Old 12-24-2008, 06:04 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by gwia View Post
Some people just like to comforted by faith, knowing that there is something out there that will always love you unconditionaly. Just because you think that it's full of crap doesn't mean that it doesn't mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. The basic fundamentals of Christianity and most major religions is love, some people interpret it in different ways and so we have the extremesits (Westboro Baptist Church) but every religion has that.
"I love you homosexuals so I'm going to pass prop 8 and make you second class citizens, for your own good."
"I love you but since your religion is wrong I'm going to go on a crusade and slaughter thousands of your helpless people; that will help you get into heaven...somehow."

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Originally Posted by gwia View Post
Why do Athiests feel it neccesary to bash Christianity and only Christianty, does it make you feel better than others to try and shit all over their beliefs, bashing religions a little immature. Not all christians are fundies and bible bashers that are gonna try to convert you, most aren't.
That probably stems from the atheists you have come in contact with are all in societies where the major religion is Christianity and it's forced down their throats by the select few over the top religious nut jobs in the area.
However, this thread isn't about the actions Christians take or even the morals of their religion. It's about why they think their religion is the right one.
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Old 12-24-2008, 06:11 PM   #14
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I saw an evangelical preaching in front of an episcopalian church today talking about how "IF YOU CHOOSE TO FORNICATE AND GET DRUNK WHENEVER YOU WANT, YOU ARE FRATERNIZING WITH THE DEVIL"

the fuck? there were a bunch of kids there doing the whole manger scene. dooshez
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Old 12-24-2008, 06:29 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Zetex View Post
"I love you homosexuals so I'm going to pass prop 8 and make you second class citizens, for your own good."
Prop 8 wasn't a big deal, I don't see the point of marriage. In Australia it's in our constitution that marriage is between a man and a woman. It's not a big deal, I don't care, why should you? But this thread isn't about that so let's not turn it into that discussion.
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"I love you but since your religion is wrong I'm going to go on a crusade and slaughter thousands of your helpless people; that will help you get into heaven...somehow."
Because Christians from the Middle Ages are exactly the same as the ones from today.
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That probably stems from the atheists you have come in contact with are all in societies where the major religion is Christianity and it's forced down their throats by the select few over the top religious nut jobs in the area.
So many people think thats what all Christians are like and it's just not true. There are those over zelous people that are like that yes, it gets annoying so frustrating but most aren't like that. Christianity is about love.
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Originally Posted by Zetex View Post
However, this thread isn't about the actions Christians take or even the morals of their religion. It's about why they think their religion is the right one.
Because they have faith and they want to believe in something higher, Christianity preaches love in it's core. You bring up examples of what some christians have done but that doesn't mean that's what the religion is about, it's about love. God loves everyone forever and always and will always be there if you need him, it's a comforting thing.
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when was the last time you saw someone come door-to-door preaching buddhism?
I've never had anybody come door-to-door preaching anything, ever. It just doesn't happen where I live.
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Originally Posted by Willy_Wonka View Post
I saw an evangelical preaching in front of an episcopalian church today talking about how "IF YOU CHOOSE TO FORNICATE AND GET DRUNK WHENEVER YOU WANT, YOU ARE FRATERNIZING WITH THE DEVIL"
Those people were douche bags.
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Old 12-24-2008, 06:36 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Zetex View Post
Interesting how historians accept his existence when there is no mention of Jesus himself by any historians that were around while Jesus was supposed to be around performing his miracles. You would think someone performing incredible miracles like that would get mentioned more.
To be honest, there probably weren't a lot of "historians" out 1500 miles across the Mediterranean sea from Rome following a religious nutcase out in the Babylonian desert.

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Originally Posted by Zetex View Post
Pliny the Younger only mentions Christians but never mentions Jesus. Tacitus does but that was after a century of Jesus's assumed existence.
The closest thing during the time is from Josephus, and he mentions John the Baptist and never says a thing about Jesus Christ.
Wasn't sure who Pliny the younger was, but apparently he was a historiographer who's journeys took him no farther east than western Turkey, about 800 miles from the province of Israel at the time. I'm surprised he even made note of John the Baptist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pliny_t...Career_summary

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There may have been a man named Jesus but there is no way any of the stories about him are more than partially true; he was more than likely just a cult leader.
That's what the disciples and Jesus were, a religious cult.

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Originally Posted by Zetex View Post
The story of Jesus is just a metaphor of the sun passing through the Zodiac constellation. Jesus's ministry lasts a year; the sun completes its trip around the zodiac in a year. Jesus has twelve disciples; the year has twelve months. The sun "dies" on December 22nd (the winter solstice) and is "reborn" on the 25th; Jesus dies on the 22nd and resurrects 3 days later on the 25th.
Jesus is "reborn" on the Easter holiday, not on Christmas. Nor is christmas the real birthdate of Jesus. "Historians" bellieve him to be born during the summer as this was the time of the Roman census in the province of Israel at the time. This was the time as stated in the bible that Jesus is born. The holiday was moved to December to compete with Pegan holidays celebrating the winter solstice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census_of_Quirinius
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas


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Originally Posted by Zetex View Post
It's funny because Jesus himself was plagiarized from other myths of the past, who also died and were resurrected on the same days as Jesus and the sun, which brings me to another point. History sort of led up to Jesus's story. He's plagiarized from multiple other stories. That's why the dead sea scrolls are thought to be about him, when in reality they're more than likely referring to other myths. The dead sea scrolls never mention Jesus's name nor do they mention any of his followers' names from the New Testament.
where are you getting this info from?
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Old 12-24-2008, 08:04 PM   #17
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Prop 8 wasn't a big deal, I don't see the point of marriage. In Australia it's in our constitution that marriage is between a man and a woman. It's not a big deal, I don't care, why should you? But this thread isn't about that so let's not turn it into that discussion.
You obviously don't know what the fuck prop 8 is. It didn't only make gay marriage illegal. It essentially made them second class citizens.
Also, just because you don't care doesn't mean it means something to others. Marriage is very symbolical for most people and it also has a lot of benefits tax wise.

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Because Christians from the Middle Ages are exactly the same as the ones from today.
Are you trying to say a lot of violence today doesn't stem from differing religions?

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Originally Posted by gwia View Post
So many people think thats what all Christians are like and it's just not true. There are those over zelous people that are like that yes, it gets annoying so frustrating but most aren't like that.
That can be said about every religion.

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Originally Posted by gwia View Post
Christianity is about love.
It's also about a murderous God who will throw you in hell for all eternity because he "loves" you.

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Originally Posted by gwia View Post
Because they have faith and they want to believe in something higher, Christianity preaches love in it's core. You bring up examples of what some christians have done but that doesn't mean that's what the religion is about, it's about love. God loves everyone forever and always and will always be there if you need him, it's a comforting thing.
Where will God be when I'm thrown in hell for having premarital sex and need to get the fuck out of there? It's funny how Christianity is considered to be about love but if you read the bible it's more about punishment and violence than anything else.

Last edited by Zetex; 12-24-2008 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 12-24-2008, 08:09 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by MrNaPaLm32 View Post
Jesus is "reborn" on the Easter holiday, not on Christmas. Nor is christmas the real birthdate of Jesus. "Historians" bellieve him to be born during the summer as this was the time of the Roman census in the province of Israel at the time. This was the time as stated in the bible that Jesus is born. The holiday was moved to December to compete with Pegan holidays celebrating the winter solstice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census_of_Quirinius
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas
Interesting point. I'll have to look more into that.


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where are you getting this info from?
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/chri...y_nojesus.html
http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen13.html
http://members.cox.net/deleyd/religi...astrology.html
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059245/
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Old 12-24-2008, 09:57 PM   #19
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Shouldn't hell be fucking awesome if the devil was all into PREMARITAL FORNICATING BLASPHEMY?

and tempting and shit. Hell has >9000 LAN parties every day. And satan himself will show you how to beat turbo tunnel in battle toads
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Old 12-24-2008, 10:41 PM   #20
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You obviously don't know what the fuck prop 8 is. It didn't only make gay marriage illegal. It essentially made them second class citizens.
Also, just because you don't care doesn't mean it means something to others. Marriage is very symbolical for most people and it also has a lot of benefits tax wise.
I know what Prop 8 was but it didn't make anybody a second class citizen. Gay marriage just became illegal again in California.

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Are you trying to say a lot of violence today doesn't stem from differing religions?
Yes and No, some people just use religion as an excuse to do things. People interpret scriptures differently and use it as a tool to attack others and as a justifcation for causing war.

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That can be said about every religion.
Exactly, but athiests only attack Christianity. Like you created this thread to specifically attack Christians. You also probably blame Prop 8 passing on the mormons when the black churches supported it just as much.

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It's also about a murderous God who will throw you in hell for all eternity because he "loves" you.
No it isn't, you look for the negatives. Anything you do God will forgive you, anything at all he will ALWAYS forgive you and love you. However you can't reward somebody when they have fought so hard to disobey you and go against you, like if you had a child you would love them but if they broke your rules you wouldn't go out and buy them an ice cream or something.

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Where will God be when I'm thrown in hell for having premarital sex and need to get the fuck out of there?
You won't be thrown in hell for that, if you believe in God and are sorry for your sins he will always forgive you, that's the most important thing about christianity that people like you always seem to ignore.

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It's funny how Christianity is considered to be about love but if you read the bible it's more about punishment and violence than anything else.
I've read the bible and it says that God will always forgive you and always loves you. So you can focus on all the bad things and continue to bash Christianity all you want. I just think it's stupid how you bash just one religion and completly ignore all other religions and you focus on any negative aspect and completly ignore everything else.
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Old 12-24-2008, 10:59 PM   #21
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I know what Prop 8 was but it didn't make anybody a second class citizen. Gay marriage just became illegal again in California.
Which did what? It dissolved the standing marriages of all gay couples there and therefor dissolved all of their rights togethor, such as visiting rights in the hospital. There's more to marriage than you seem to understand.

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Yes and No, some people just use religion as an excuse to do things. People interpret scriptures differently and use it as a tool to attack others and as a justifcation for causing war.
Alright. Religion is used to start wars which therefor causes massive amounts of violence.

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Exactly, but athiests only attack Christianity. Like you created this thread to specifically attack Christians. You also probably blame Prop 8 passing on the mormons when the black churches supported it just as much.
Atheists you know, maybe.


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No it isn't, you look for the negatives. Anything you do God will forgive you, anything at all he will ALWAYS forgive you and love you. However you can't reward somebody when they have fought so hard to disobey you and go against you, like if you had a child you would love them but if they broke your rules you wouldn't go out and buy them an ice cream or something.
"God will always forgive you."
Ooooh gotcha. Does that mean Hell is empty?
You're right, people do deserve punishment for bad things. However, an eternity of punishment is just silly. Even people who slaughter thousands of people should be at rest after death. Since they're no longer able to affect anyone else and nobody else will ever have mortal contact with them, why does it matter? Everyone deserves peace after death.

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You won't be thrown in hell for that, if you believe in God and are sorry for your sins he will always forgive you, that's the most important thing about christianity that people like you always seem to ignore.
So are the mentally challenged who are unable to comprehend remorse doomed to an eternity of Hell for the way God made them? What about the people who grow up in different cultures and are brought up by a different religion? Are they doomed, too, because they didn't know any better?


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I've read the bible and it says that God will always forgive you and always loves you. So you can focus on all the bad things and continue to bash Christianity all you want. I just think it's stupid how you bash just one religion and completly ignore all other religions and you focus on any negative aspect and completly ignore everything else.
First off, completely*
If God always forgives then why is there even a concept of Hell?
Now, I can just as easily make a thread about Muslims or Hinduism but as far as I know, nobody here follows those religions and therefor I wouldn't get any answers.
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:20 PM   #22
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John 3: 14-20
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:20 PM   #23
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"God will always forgive you."
Ooooh gotcha. Does that mean Hell is empty?
No, because you have to believe in god and accept him fully to get into heaven during your lifetime. I'm not sure what happens in the afterlife, anyway.

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You're right, people do deserve punishment for bad things. However, an eternity of punishment is just silly. Even people who slaughter thousands of people should be at rest after death. Since they're no longer able to affect anyone else and nobody else will ever have mortal contact with them, why does it matter? Everyone deserves peace after death.
Well I'm not sure how the afterlife works, I don't pretend to know all the answers because I don't believe every single word of the bible. I think that some of it is metaphorical or can't apply to modern times, because that's how I view it. Everybody has a different view on religion. You seem to look down on people for believing in it.


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So are the mentally challenged who are unable to comprehend remorse doomed to an eternity of Hell for the way God made them? What about the people who grow up in different cultures and are brought up by a different religion? Are they doomed, too, because they didn't know any better?
I don't know about the disabled, I presume that they get in automatically but I don't know. As for people of other faiths they have access to the information in today's soceity. So if they've heard about it and they reject it they go to hell just like people who were raised with it and reject it, however if they have never ever heard of it I don't know how that works either I don't know all the answers and I don't pretend to know all the answers either, I only know what I believe.


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If God always forgives then why is there even a concept of Hell?
Because he always forgive mankind while they are alive as long as people as for forgivness and salvation.

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Now, I can just as easily make a thread about Muslims or Hinduism but as far as I know, nobody here follows those religions and therefor I wouldn't get any answers.
First of all *therefore

And what kind of athiest would you be if you bashed anything but Christianity. I have never seen an anthiest question any other religion because you are set out to attack Christians. Just because you've had some bad experiances with Christians doesn't mean that all Christians are bad.
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:34 PM   #24
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No, because you have to believe in god and accept him fully to get into heaven during your lifetime. I'm not sure what happens in the afterlife, anyway.
Sucks for the majority of the world's population that's grown up in a different culture then.

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Well I'm not sure how the afterlife works, I don't pretend to know all the answers because I don't believe every single word of the bible. I think that some of it is metaphorical or can't apply to modern times, because that's how I view it. Everybody has a different view on religion. You seem to look down on people for believing in it.
Hah. I don't look down on people for believing in God. I'm sure there is a higher being out there, but I don't think any person out there knows what or who it is before they die.

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I only know what I believe.
Believe and know are two separate things.


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Because he always forgive mankind while they are alive as long as people as for forgivness and salvation.
My animal instincts just made me have sex with Susy and I was going to have remorse afterwards but I had a stroke and died mid-orgasm! Off to Hell I go.

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First of all *therefore
It can be spelled either way.


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And what kind of athiest would you be if you bashed anything but Christianity. I have never seen an anthiest question any other religion because you are set out to attack Christians. Just because you've had some bad experiances with Christians doesn't mean that all Christians are bad.
That argument is getting obnoxious and old. Stop repeating yourself.
I never said all Christians are bad. It's funny how defensive you're getting.
But if you're going to generalize all atheists into one, then I'm going to do the same thing to you. All Christians are closed minded, ignorant, and cold blooded murderers.

I'm not atheist, by the way. Atheism is having no belief whatsoever in a higher being. I'm agnostic.
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:42 PM   #25
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Sucks for the majority of the world's population that's grown up in a different culture then.
Maybe, if they've heard of the Christian God and they reject it I assume they would be treated the exact same as you.

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Originally Posted by Zetex View Post
Hah. I don't look down on people for believing in God. I'm sure there is a higher being out there, but I don't think any person out there knows what or who it is before they die.
Well you seem to be looking down on people and attack people for believing in Jesus.

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Originally Posted by Zetex View Post
Believe and know are two separate things.
I know what I believe, like I know what my personal beliefs are.


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Originally Posted by Zetex View Post
My animal instincts just made me have sex with Susy and I was going to have remorse afterwards but I had a stroke and died mid-orgasm! Off to Hell I go.
No, just because you sin once doesn't send you to hell. If you believed in god while you were comitting the sin but you were thinking with your genitals more than your head then I don't think that would count because if you had accepted Jesus and all that (I don't mean to sound preachy) then it wouldn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Zetex View Post
That argument is getting obnoxious and old. Stop repeating yourself.
I never said all Christians are bad. It's funny how defensive you're getting.
But if you're going to generalize all atheists into one, then I'm going to do the same thing to you. All Christians are closed minded, ignorant, and cold blooded murderers.
I've been on the gamefaqs politics board, I've been seeing them. All "Libertarian" athiests who hate christians also if you're right wing you're a bigot and George W. Bush is the devil.
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