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Old 05-19-2007, 10:49 AM   #1
Natus Lumen
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Default Time and Space and The Universe

Discuss traveling through time and space. I just bought a copy of The Universe In A Nutshell by Stephen Hawking (sounds kind of lame, but whatever), and I've looked through it but haven't read much yet, as I still have to finish Dorian Gray.

Here, discuss things about the state of our universe and stuff like that and theories to traveling through it.
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Old 05-19-2007, 11:31 PM   #2
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if you were to travel through time, the universe would implode....
because matter can neither be created nor destroyed, traveling in time would mean you would be taking matter from your time (matter = you) into another time and universe where there is already that exact amount of matter.
meaning that now, one universe has not enough matter, and the other has too much. causing implosion of both universes (i don't know why. its just happens).


also there is the old old old theory that whatever you do in the past affects the future (I'm sure you've all seen enough movies to know what that entails)

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Old 05-20-2007, 09:25 AM   #3
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Time travel doesn't make a lot of sense to me. For example, if you were to travel back in time to change something in the future, then you wouldn't need to do it in the future, because you've already changed the past. This is a paradoxical situation; also, if one went into the past, a time paradox would be created by having two of the same person on the same time plane.
Traveling into the future, however, is entirely possible. I'm doing that right now, typing this post!
@gussa: Energy cannot be created nor destroyed.
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Old 05-23-2007, 06:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu-Nacho View Post
@gussa: Energy cannot be created nor destroyed.
nor can matter.
its one of the fundamental laws of science. that and never eat eggs with swiss cheese
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Old 05-27-2007, 01:56 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by gussa View Post
nor can matter.
its one of the fundamental laws of science. that and never eat eggs with swiss cheese
You must be joking. Matter can easily be created, and destroyed. They do it in physics labs in Switzerland.

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Originally Posted by gussa View Post
time travel (into the past at least) simply is not possible.
dont even try
What is with you and these strange axioms. You have stated no reasoning. The 4th dimention starts over into a one-dimentional format, with all lines headed in one direction. So why cant you go backwards?

Last edited by MrNaPaLm32; 05-27-2007 at 01:58 AM.
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Old 05-27-2007, 05:04 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by MrNaPaLm32 View Post
You must be joking. Matter can easily be created, and destroyed. They do it in physics labs in Switzerland.
What is with you and these strange axioms. You have stated no reasoning. The 4th dimention starts over into a one-dimentional format, with all lines headed in one direction. So why cant you go backwards?
hit me with one of you multi quotal, paragraphed posts will you???


i don't see how matter can be created. where in Switzerland are they destroying matter and how?
i mean atomic matter by the way, not just burning up a bit of paper.
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Old 05-27-2007, 01:26 PM   #7
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i don't see how matter can be created. where in Switzerland are they destroying matter and how?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider
Anti-matter. 1 + -1 = 0 no? When antimatter and matter collide, its called an anihalation, in which both masses are destroyed, and 100% pure energy is released. Could be one of the most efficient power sources ever. One gram of antimatter could power the entire United States for a year. However its still very dangerous. If you were to say, drop a softball sized chunk of antimatter onto the ground, you could essentially split the earth in two. Ouch...
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i mean atomic matter by the way, not just burning up a bit of paper.
What do you mean? You think the matter goes away when you burn a piece of paper?

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Originally Posted by Neverender. View Post
The Lomonosov-Lavioser law states that the mass of a closed system of substances will remain constant, regardless of processes taking place inside the system. I think the exception to this rule is a nuclear reaction, and splitting atoms and stuff, and I don't pretend to be an expert on nuclear physics.
When you split an atom, it doesn't go away, you just have protons and crap everywhere. Stray atomic particles flying around is called radiation.

Last edited by MrNaPaLm32; 05-27-2007 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:40 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNaPaLm32 View Post
What is with you and these strange axioms. You have stated no reasoning. The 4th dimention starts over into a one-dimentional format, with all lines headed in one direction. So why cant you go backwards?
What do you mean? Fourth dismensional constructs cannot be realized in one, two, or three-dismensional geometry.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:11 AM   #9
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What do you mean? Fourth dismensional constructs cannot be realized in one, two, or three-dismensional geometry.
yeah, they can.
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:12 AM   #10
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It's hard to imagine being able to travel to the past. Time continually sweeps people forward through it (concept- aliens that travel BACKWARDS through time). It would be like swimming upstream. You would need to "climb out of the water," so to speak, and get back in further upstream. Does anyone else understand my metaphor?
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:08 PM   #11
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Time is an illusion created by the human mind. Everything happens simultaneously(poor spellin, yes it is), from the creation to the destruction of the universe. It's just impossible to comprehend. Did I just contradict myself? I am now confused. So says Yoda.
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Old 05-22-2007, 08:43 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by gabrielwhist View Post
Time is an illusion created by the human mind. Everything happens simultaneously(poor spellin, yes it is), from the creation to the destruction of the universe. It's just impossible to comprehend. Did I just contradict myself? I am now confused. So says Yoda.
It's actually called the 4th dimension. Time/Space relation. And its no illusion.
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Old 05-22-2007, 06:05 AM   #13
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Yeah, you did contradict yourself.
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Old 05-22-2007, 09:20 AM   #14
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Welcome to the great discussion. It's hard to define time, being in time. It's similar to being in a maze and trying to determine what it looks like from above.
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Old 05-22-2007, 02:27 PM   #15
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I just watched Donnie Darko, and read some stuff on Wikipedia about time travel and paradoxes. My conclusion:
lol, wut?
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Old 05-23-2007, 09:42 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu-Nacho View Post
I just watched Donnie Darko, and read some stuff on Wikipedia about time travel and paradoxes. My conclusion:
lol, wut?
I think in that movie he did time travel but as a result he created an unstable alternate universe which would collapse because of its instability.
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:30 PM   #17
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It is a topic that can fo' sho' lead one's mind in a circle. I like the concept of Merlin, living backwards in time. That's always fun to think about.

Now, Time/space relation. When you travel through space, you travel through time, but you don't have to be traveling through space to travel through time. However, the concept of wormholes is a sort of exception to this rule, as you travel through time and space in an unnatural way simulateously when you go through a wormhole. The hole is a tunnel through both time and space, and is basically a 'worldline' bent in just the right way. You enter in one end and exit out another end anywhere along the plain of space or time.

Of course, time travel from the future to the past is most likely never going to be possible, as there are no 'tourists' from the future walking about killing or saving random things for no apparent reason. Unless, that is, the future human race has developed a way to be undetectable when they travel back in time, entering, making adjustments, and leaving so quietly we don't notice them, but that's fairly doubtful. Maybe the future humans have found a way of calculating all the possible consequences of their adjustments, which is impossible, calculating that the Butterfly Effect (that's what it is right?), or 'Ripple effect' (one thing causes another causes another and causes another, etc.) is infinite and completely unrelated things happen as consequences for changing the past.

'Tis an interesting thought, so it is.
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Old 05-22-2007, 11:09 PM   #18
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Come to think of it there really would be no practical use for time travel in either direction. I mean it's too dangerous to go back in time (as the dude above me said) and who really wants to go straight to the future without experiencing or understanding what came before it?
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Old 05-23-2007, 08:50 AM   #19
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Conversely, if you went into the future without moving through space, you would likely not end up on earth, as earth is continually moving through time and space.
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Old 05-23-2007, 05:01 PM   #20
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In Donnie Darko, the message was a lot more moral than it was about time and space travel. He killed Frank because he was angry, and Frank was the one who saved Donnie's life. Frank is sort of a figment of the universe (he exists in time but not space) so when Donnie killed Frank that meant that there was no one in the past to save him, so he went back in time and died, and all that he did between the two jet engine incidents was erased from time completely.
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Old 05-23-2007, 05:11 PM   #21
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No, Donnie traveled back in time to the day where the jet engine fell, and just decided to lay there at the end of the movie. He was in a predestination paradox, looping those 28 days for a while; this is shown when he's talking to the girl after and says, "I'm really glad the school flooded; we've never had this conversation before."
I suppose he was satisfied with how things turned out on the last run or something, so he decided to let his time pass and the engine crush him.
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Old 05-24-2007, 02:24 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Ryu-Nacho View Post
No, Donnie traveled back in time to the day where the jet engine fell, and just decided to lay there at the end of the movie. He was in a predestination paradox, looping those 28 days for a while; this is shown when he's talking to the girl after and says, "I'm really glad the school flooded; we've never had this conversation before."
I suppose he was satisfied with how things turned out on the last run or something, so he decided to let his time pass and the engine crush him.
Hmmm...that reminds me quite heavily and undeniably of The Dark Tower series by Stephen King, and how it ends and such. I think that there are a number of things more than what you said, though. It makes sense that he was in a time loop, but I think the reason he got killed that time was because he got mad and killed Frank, and he wouldn't have killed Frank if he hadn't met the girl.

So I think that the girl had more significance to Donnie than is obvious, as I think she alters his fate using the Butterfly Effect, and additionally, the song at the end of the movie by Gary Jules was a direct representation of what happened to Donnie like when he sings about how the times when he dies are the best. But...I think when he said "I'm really glad the school flooded; we've never had this conversation before.", I think he actually says "I'm really glad the school flooded; we WOULD never had had this conversation." Maybe you are right. That movie is largely left open for speculation, and isn't easily explained.
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Old 05-23-2007, 10:12 PM   #23
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And don't snack on Mentos after guzzling Diet Coke.
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Old 05-23-2007, 10:25 PM   #24
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i learned that the hard way...
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Old 05-24-2007, 04:01 PM   #25
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I haven't read the Dark Tower series yet, so I can't really comment or relate to that part.
As for the movie, there is certainly a lot to discuss and debate over. And, I checked the movie script; you're right. He says, "We never would have had this conversation." But I still feel that he was looping that period over, doing different things. It would/could help explain the start of the movie too where Donnie is in the forest or whatever.
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