Okay, so my friend and I were arguing over this in biology class, and it has not yet been solved. Here's how it is:

Him (David): So Sam, wouldn't you agree with the theory that anything of limited size, no matter the size, compared to infintity becomes nothing, no matter how large or small?

Me: No, because everything is something. A nanosecond compared to all of time pales in its insignificance, but that nanosecond doesn't just stop existing and disappear because it's compared to infinity.

David: But, anything compared to infity becomes incredibly tiny, so small that we may as well just consider it nonexistent. If I stood side by side with an entity the size of the universe, I would be so small that I would no longer exist.

Me: But you would have to altogether disappear to become just...nothing.

The argument continues between us...what do you guys think?

I think you're both foolish arguing about something so trivial that you'll never fully understand.

well, my personal belief, in essence, is that size continues indefinetly. atoms were first considered the smallest particle, then came protons, neutrons, elections, then quarks, then recently even smaller particles were created when we smashed two quarks together. It goes the same way the other direction. moons orbit planets, planets orbit a star, stars themselves orbit each other. galaxies, etc. the list goes on.

and heyyou is right, you're dealing with quantum physics here. I wouldn't start poking at who's right and who's wrong until you have a PHD in quantum mechanics.

I'm going to agree with Neverender. You can become infinitely small, but you'd still be existent.

I'm thinking that this is more of a logical/philosophical/theoretical debate than a quantum physics debate, but when you get into the technical aspects of it like how small something can be before it disappears, then yes, quantum physics can be introduced.

So speaking in theoretical terms, I'd like to think that I'm right.

Well, so long as something exists, it emits some form of energy, otherwise we would never be able to acknowledge it, not see it or smell it or record it, just acknowledge it even if it is at its most profound origin, thought. So long as it can be acknowledged, consciously or subconsciously, it exists. No matter what a thought is compared to, it cannot be removed from existence.

I'll agree with Neverender because obviously if I just compare one of you to infinity, then why aren't you gone yet?

yeah, your friend isnt too swift, if something compared to infinity was to no longer exist, then infinity would no longer exist, because its composed only of smaller items which would pale in comparison to the whole of infinity

yeah, your friend isnt too swift, if something compared to infinity was to no longer exist, then infinity would no longer exist, because its composed only of smaller items which would pale in comparison to the whole of infinity

funny...

something...compared to infinity exists...
∞ > X


doesnt exist...

∞ > 0


I'm not quite grasping your logic as to why when something exists another one can't.

Think of it this way, take a marble, then take the earth, and put them side to side, and go to the moon. Although you can see the earth and not the marble, it doesn't mean the marbles not there.

I was actually about to make a thread similar to this, so I may as well post it in here.
So here it goes. Two questions. First one. Its about the quantom dot. The scientists say that the way the universe came into being was when the quantom dot exploded. Now the quantum dot is supposed to have infinite gravity which also makes it infinitely small (so they say to the people that its basicly nothing). Now the question is what would make it explode? It has an infinite gravity holding it together. ONLY something more powerful than it can cause it to explode. But they say that there was nothing. So, what made the quantum dot explode? And for the second question. Where is the Universe sitting?

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PS/7665~Dude-WTF-Posters.jpg

Just 'cause you don't understand nicky.

No, I understand the question. There's just so possible way to answer it.

Your posted image implies that you don't get this thread.

Time and space exists within the universe as a loop that can be described as a metaphor: chasing our tails. No beginning. No end. Just a colossal loop of us heading in the direction of where we are at our current point in time.

Think of it this way, take a marble, then take the earth, and put them side to side, and go to the moon. Although you can see the earth and not the marble, it doesn't mean the marbles not there.

Infinity is a whole lot bigger than the distance from earth to the moon.

funny...
something...compared to infinity exists...
∞ > X
doesnt exist...
∞ > 0
I'm not quite grasping your logic as to why when something exists another one can't.
ive come to the conclusion, you have an IQ of less than 5, what i was saying is that just because something is compared to something so much vastly larger that it seems to disappear within the larger item, it doesnt cease to exist


ill just leave it at that since you cant seem to comprehend that everything is made up of something so much smaller than the item as a whole that they seem to cease to exist within it(AKA, disappear, cant be seen)
=====
btw, what makes you not understanding even more astounding is that i was arguing your own point

ive come to the conclusion, you have an IQ of less than 5, what i was saying is that just because something is compared to something so much vastly larger that it seems to disappear within the larger item, it doesnt cease to exist
ill just leave it at that since you cant seem to comprehend that everything is made up of something so much smaller than the item as a whole that they seem to cease to exist within it(AKA, disappear, cant be seen)
=====
btw, what makes you not understanding even more astounding is that i was arguing your own point"you have an IQ of less than 5", did you come up with that one yourself? Really creative, I see you're obviously WAY more intelligent than anyone else on this forum. Please forgive us all for we're not worthy of being in your ultra intelligent presence. Perhaps you should spend your time in a forum a little more geared towards people of your intelligence, say some revolving Quantum mechanics since you seem to know so much about it.

Time and space exists within the universe as a loop that can be described as a metaphor: chasing our tails. No beginning. No end. Just a colossal loop of us heading in the direction of where we are at our current point in time.

That does not answer the question. You tried going around it, nice try. If the universe keeps expanding, what does it expand in? The universe must be sitting somewhere. All you told me was what is in the universe. I want you to tell me where the universe its self is sitting. And someone is yet to answer what made the Quantum dot explode(that is if the quantum dot actually exists/existed). THINK ABOUT IT.

Infinity is a whole lot bigger than the distance from earth to the moon.

I know, I can't get my wording out correctly.

You are all stupid.





I HAVE SPOKEN!
**skips off merrily**

OMFG PWNED LOLZ!!!111

That does not answer the question. You tried going around it, nice try. If the universe keeps expanding, what does it expand in? The universe must be sitting somewhere. All you told me was what is in the universe. I want you to tell me where the universe its self is sitting. And someone is yet to answer what made the Quantum dot explode(that is if the quantum dot actually exists/existed). THINK ABOUT IT.
Well, I did start to answer that question, but I'm actually trying to refrain from long posts. Apparently, it's beginning to annoy people. I began to answer, and then I kind of forgot the question. So here are your answers from my perspective:

Maybe the universe is everything everywhere. The universe is our boundary, and everything lives and exists within it. Maybe the universe is all that is, and that has ever been. Another thing we have to think about is this: the universe isn't really material. It can't be. In the vast space between planets and stars and other existing matter, what is there? Nothing. Empty space. Hence, the universe isn't necessarily resting in or on something, but things are definitely resting in our universe. This may not sound like much, but if this were true, and the fact that things exist outside the universe were true, that would have to mean things would inexorably enter into our universe. Also, if the universe were, indeed, resting on or in something, there would have to be some solid, material boundary that holds the universe together. Which, to my knowledge and sense of logic, can't be.

As for the "Quantum Dot" theory, it is improbable in my opinion, but possible. There have been many tests to reenact what happened when the "quantum dot" exploded, but very few have made any plausible connection with the creation of our universe. Theoretically, though, it could have happened.

ive come to the conclusion, you have an IQ of less than 5, what i was saying is that just because something is compared to something so much vastly larger that it seems to disappear within the larger item, it doesnt cease to exist infinity...isnt a larger item... Its a mathematical expression used to define something without bounds. IT has nothing to do with the greatness of anything. I'm sorry to see you think that way.

If you are 21, your knowledge of math seems to be lacking for someone in college.


ill just leave it at that since you cant seem to comprehend that everything is made up of something so much smaller than the item as a whole that they seem to cease to exist within it(AKA, disappear, cant be seen)
=====
btw, what makes you not understanding even more astounding is that i was arguing your own pointno, you weren't.

Good Day, Mr. 21

"you have an IQ of less than 5", did you come up with that one yourself? Really creative, I see you're obviously WAY more intelligent than anyone else on this forum. Please forgive us all for we're not worthy of being in your ultra intelligent presence. Perhaps you should spend your time in a forum a little more geared towards people of your intelligence, say some revolving Quantum mechanics since you seem to know so much about it.
actually, i do know alot about it for someone who has never taken a class on the subject, i find it fascinating and have read a few books on the subject, i recommend Quantum Evolution by Johnjoe Mcfadden
=====
infinity...isnt a larger item... Its a mathematical expression used to define something without bounds. IT has nothing to do with the greatness of anything. I'm sorry to see you think that way.
If you are 21, your knowledge of math seems to be lacking for someone in college.
no, you weren't.
Good Day, Mr. 21
i must say, im shocked by this, go read the post you started this thread with, sure sounds like youre referring to items, your friend even uses himself compared to infinity, so that leaves me baffled as to how to even respond to this, sure infinity has no physical meaning, nor does comparing it to something of a determined size, but regardless, this "thing without bounds" is made up of something, even if its merely the numbers counting into inifinity, and my argument still holds

OMFG PWNED LOLZ!!!111
I kno riite??!! ?!

i must say, im shocked by this, go read the post you started this thread with, sure sounds like youre referring to items, your friend even uses himself compared to infinity, so that leaves me baffled as to how to even respond to this, sure infinity has no physical meaning, nor does comparing it to something of a determined size, but regardless, this "thing without bounds" is made up of something, even if its merely the numbers counting into inifinity, and my argument still holds


Infinity is just infinity, it's not made up of items.

i recommend Quantum Evolution by Johnjoe Mcfadden

SUBLIMINAL MESSAGING

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/2865/xfiles09yr0.th.jpg (http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xfiles09yr0.jpg)

SUBLIMINAL MESSAGING
Guh-gasp....what is this thread coming to?
I kno riite??!! ?!
lol srsly....

i must say, im shocked by this,Are you? Well, you got me there. go read the post you started this thread with, sure sounds like youre referring to items,Uh, the post referring to the planets? Listen, infinity itself isn't comprised of items, you can give relative examples of infinity, but never an exact answer using raw data, as you'd have an infinite amount of raw data. Sound familiar? your friend even uses himself compared to infinity, so that leaves me baffled as to how to even respond to this,I'm baffled as to what you're talking about right now. sure infinity has no physical meaning,Things are either physical or abstract. However I'm fairly certain you've confused yourself, as physics applies to physical objects. And I do bellieve we're talking aobut quantum physics, so obviously infinity applies to physical things.nor does comparing it to something of a determined size,This is a sentence fragment, and doesn't make sense. but regardless, this "thing without bounds" is made up of something, Woah....Wait a minute here.... Didn't you just say....sure infinity has no physical meaning,
-------------------------------

even if its merely the numbers counting into inifinity, and my argument still holds
I really don't think it does.


NaPaLm Style... as Pink_Floyd would put it.

Owning people using quotes is all the rage now.

Owning people
Is
using quotes
it
is all the rage now.
now?

(Just a note, I happen to actually know quite a bit about this subject, having been fascinated by abstract mathematics since I first read about that whole tortoise and hare thing way back in the fourth grade, but I'm not getting involved for the simple reason that I don't really feel like it.)

(Just a note, I happen to actually know quite a bit about this subject, having been fascinated by abstract mathematics since I first read about that whole tortoise and hare thing way back in the fourth grade, but I'm not getting involved for the simple reason that I don't really feel like it.)Yeah, this is relatively pointless, since nobody knows anything about it.

I can only talk about this on the level of philosophy, which is something I love. I'll admit that I've never bothered with the mathematical side of this kinda thing.