So you think we should keep it and make it the womens choice (pro choice) or should it be Illegal.
I vote Pro Choice.

I say it should be illegal, unless it could kill the mother. If she didn't want a baby, she shoulda kept her pants on!

Please vote in the poll!

I say they should have a right to choose

Please vote in the poll!
Ha! My option isn't in the poll! Thus, I refuse to vote!

Abortion is just another way irresponsible people are taken care of in the U.S.; the woman should have used a condom or another contraceptive method to avoid pregnancy.

oh right, so it's just tough luck if they get raped

oh right, so it's just tough luck if they get raped
Yeah pretty much. I'm joking, but the majority of women who have abortions are not rape victims

i dont think males should have a say in this.

i dont think males should have a say in this.
What if I want to have my child?

rape someone then steal the baby.

it's morally fine.

rape someone then steal the baby.

it's morally fine.
What you don't understand is most abortions performed in the U.S. are not a result of rape.

i do understand that

you're a moron. a complete moron.

even if i didn't understand, would that change anything?

even if i didn't understand, would that change anything?
You're one to throw around the word "moron". You've been here for a month and have already created a bad reputation for yourself.

does that make me a moron?

darwin wasn't the most liked fellow was he?

darwin wasn't the most liked fellow was he? How dare you compare yourself to Charles Darwin; Darwin was not unpopular because he pretended to be a nazi and then complained about being labeled one.

How dare you compare yourself to Charles Darwin; Charles Darwin was not unpopular because he pretended to be a nazi and then complained about being labeled one.

idiot. i'm just dismissing this through complete lack of understanding.

idiot.
I'm glad you're resorting to name calling; you’re just proving my point.

what is your point? please, reiterate it.

You are incapable of presenting a logical argument, and then turn to sophomoric insults.

Oh, i can't present an argument?

I start off with making a point against your original statement aobut it's all the mother's fault.
oh right, so it's just tough luck if they get raped

Even if the mother can't control weather she wants the baby, she has to keep it, say you.

I reply sarcastically to another selfish point you raise about how it should be the father's choice, refering to your previous point about rape being the mother's responsibility.
rape someone then steal the baby.

You give me some random 'common sense' fact about most abortions being un-rape related. I reply, in semi-shocked tone at you're amazingly un-related remark.
i do understand that
even if i didn't understand, would that change anything?

You fail to answer the question, rather you choose to announce i've not the reputation to use the word 'moron' to someone of such high honorable rank in the g-prime forums *cough*. I reply with a nugget of history (the best i could think off at that moment. i could have used hitler, but who cares?) refering to darwin, not explaining any details to do with why he had bad rep or why he had become (in)famous.
darwin wasn't the most liked fellow was he?

you then reply to this with a 'how dare you'. quite a powerful statement, and it shows how you took a metephoric statement far to literally. in this argument, it was about respect and success. not weather he was a nazi or not. would it make a difference if he wasn't? i made a fuss about your lack of understanding.
idiot. i'm just dismissing this through complete lack of understanding.

you then announce you're (almighty) point! (which nobody had told me about. had you posted your point before?)

end of my argument thus far.

ps: i then added some quote-filled post explaining step-by-step and contradicting your point about how i didn't make an argument.

I didn't say I'm against abortion in all cases, but on average most abortions performed are not a result of rape, which was your defense for abortion rights.

And this is why we needed this section!

I did a debate in LA on this. I'll upload my speech tomorrow.

I'm all for abortion!

Where do you think baby juice comes from?

Yes have the right to choose, no do NOT make the abortian pill available for sale

I didn't say I'm against abortion in all cases, but on average most abortions performed are not a result of rape, which was your defense for abortion rights.

it wasn't my defence, it was one of my defences.

people can change their mind. god is forgiving.

yes, a foetus is a living thing, but it isn't self-aware. if it's not the childs choice as to who is born, then would it rather be a drunken/rapist/naive woman or a fully aware and thinking PREGNANT woman, who wants to abort her unborn child?

my opinion is, if you're against abortion, don't get one.

I think abortion in most cases is wrong. is the girl is s!utting around then she should have that baby. But if they were raped then it's hard to say. either have and abortion (preferably only if your body is to young to handle child birth) or have it and give it up.

Just something to think about... a human life is the only GOOD thing that could ever come out of a rape. So why have an abortion and turn rape into murder? Most people say that unless the woman chooses adoption, the child would constantly remind her of her horrible memories. But people who have been raped think about it every single day for years, regardless of whether they became pregnant from it or not.

As an American, I don't have the right to forbid anyone from having an abortion. I also know that morals vary greatly from person to person so not everyone will agree with me. But in my opinion it's not morally right to kill another human being, no matter how young it is.

I'm against Abortion.

I think abortion in most cases is wrong. is the girl is s!utting around then she should have that baby. But if they were raped then it's hard to say. either have and abortion (preferably only if your body is to young to handle child birth) or have it and give it up.

seriously excellent point. i totally agree

Women say men should have no say in abortion. I don't really care if abortions allowed or not so Ill quite happily have no say

I think abortion in most cases is wrong. is the girl is s!utting around then she should have that baby. But if they were raped then it's hard to say. either have and abortion (preferably only if your body is to young to handle child birth) or have it and give it up.

you're making the baby seem like a freakin' punishment!

"have it and give it up" is pretty naive too. people arn't objects.

Why do you guys vote NO?

There is a double standard here; say I murder a pregnant woman, I'm charged for the murder of the woman and her unborn child, but if she was to have an abortion it is not murder?

There is a double standard here; say I murder a pregnant woman, I'm charged for the murder of the woman and her unborn child, but if she was to have an abortion it is not murder?

it's the mothers responsibility though, not yours

it's the mothers responsibility though, not yours
But killing a child after birth is illegal; is it no longer the mother's responsibility?

But killing a child after birth is illegal; is it no longer the mother's responsibility?

well, i feel the real debate is when the foetus is considered alive.

how different is a 28 day old bunch of cells compared to a 7 month old almost-matured baby.

when it DOES become "human" the mother loses the responsibility in this sense (which is, imo, part of the reason for allowing 28 day or less pregnant women to have abortions in some countries. The heartbeat begins between the eighteenth and twenty-fifth day, and then becomes a large step closer to being independant for basic survival).

Copy and paste things to think about

The fetus is not a human, just a mass of tissue.

Abortion is safer than childbirth.

Every child should be a wanted child.

The number of abortions is relatively small.

Nobody has the right to impose their morals on me.

A woman should be able to control her own body.

Abortion must be kept legal, especially for all the rape and incest pregnancies.

If abortion is outlawed women will be forced to go to back-alley abortion clinics.

Aborting unwanted children reduces the number of abused children.

We need to remember that we are overpopulating the planet.

Planned Parenthood is a group that focuses on contraception.

it's the mothers responsibility though, not yours

So you say that if I kill a mother along with an unborn child it's her responsibilty not mine? That makes no sense.

you're making the baby seem like a freakin' punishment!

"have it and give it up" is pretty naive too. people arn't objects.

Oh no, I didn't mean it that way. I meant that if she is responsible for her pregnacy she should grow up and take care of it, the baby needs a mom, and she's gonna be one whether she likes it or not. Wait. That doesn't much better. Sorry, I bad with words.

About the give it up, I meant that if they can't give a baby the love and care it very obviously needs then they need to find someone who will.

That's why there's adoption if you can't take care of the baby.

Maybe its because I lack maternal instincts, but I don't see anything wrong with getting an abortion- shouldn't you be considered human the moment you become born- as from that point are no longer a parasite living off your mother to survive- you become a separte and individual organism. The baby is part of the mother, so abortion is really just making the mother lose the baby, just like losing a leg or arm or any other part of your body (Except after say, 6 months? Thats when the baby begins to get a consious mind I think- but you would have probably had an abortion already at that point). Its part of the mother's internal system, so yes, I would say that she should be able to get rid of it if she wants to- not letting churchy or rimusparkletop groups spread their morals- especially if the mother was raped- she didn't get the choice to have the baby, so surely we can be humane and let her not have to go through the pains of birth

look, OF COURSE they effing deserve the choice to decide
but not EVERYONE can prevent pregnancy even if you DO use contraception or a condom
theres still the chance that it can happen

Maybe its because I lack maternal instincts, but I don't see anything wrong with getting an abortion- shouldn't you be considered human the moment you become born- as from that point are no longer a parasite living off your mother to survive- you become a separte and individual organism. The baby is part of the mother, so abortion is really just making the mother lose the baby, just like losing a leg or arm or any other part of your body (Except after say, 6 months? Thats when the baby begins to get a consious mind I think- but you would have probably had an abortion already at that point). Its part of the mother's internal system, so yes, I would say that she should be able to get rid of it if she wants to- not letting churchy or rimusparkletop groups spread their morals- especially if the mother was raped- she didn't get the choice to have the baby, so surely we can be humane and let her not have to go through the pains of birth

exactly. i agree.

as i said before: "i feel the real debate is when the foetus is considered alive."

look, OF COURSE they effing deserve the choice to decide
but not EVERYONE can prevent pregnancy even if you DO use contraception or a condom
theres still the chance that it can happen
It's conception...and of course you don't have to abort the baby in the first place. If you really can't raise the baby then just put it up for adoption.

Yeah, but having a baby is really painful. Or so I've heard. But honestly...I don't think I could bring myself to have an abortion...it's kind of like throwing away a life, you know? What if your mother had decided to abort you? I mean, it's really the same. That baby would have been important to a lot of people, and could have done a lot of important things, just like you. But it never had the chance. It's easy to say that it's not a real person, but when you think about it like it could have been you, or your best friend, or anyone you know...it just seems wrong.

Yeah, but having a baby is really painful. Or so I've heard. But honestly...I don't think I could bring myself to have an abortion...it's kind of like throwing away a life, you know? What if your mother had decided to abort you? I mean, it's really the same. That baby would have been important to a lot of people, and could have done a lot of important things, just like you. But it never had the chance. It's easy to say that it's not a real person, but when you think about it like it could have been you, or your best friend, or anyone you know...it just seems wrong.
Even though that child could have done great things they could've done worse,to the mother, family, and the world there is two sides to this.

They still deserve a chance...O_o What if your mom decided that one day you might grow up to be a murder or something, so she had an abortion?

They still deserve a chance...O_o What if your mom decided that one day you might grow up to be a murder or something, so she had an abortion?
Yes, she should've, but I'm not going to be :jesus_sp_.

I hate the double standard; murder a pregnant woman and you get charged with double homicide, but she can choose to have an abortion, which isn't murder?

I don't know, it's wrong either way, I guess. I can't say I would demand more rights for a murder anyway, though. I guess they suppose that the baby is pretty much a part of the woman, so it's her choice. If someone murdered a pregnant woman, they'd be taking the mother and the baby away from the family, which is wrong. They should be punished for that. But I can't say I completely agree with the whole thing, since I don't agree with abortion at all. =/

I guess it would also have to do with how pregnant the woman was. I mean, if you murder a woman who's pregnant with a fully-developed baby, that's definitely two murders. I don't even think that mothers should be able to get an abortion at that point, no matter what. >_<

People should have the right to make choices in life, but their choices should be made with moral judgement and obligation; not selfishness. There are other alternatives with respect to a baby's life, and murder should not be one of them. What about adoption? There are plenty of childless couples out there that would be willing to adopt a baby. Abortion is just a selfish, indiscriminate way for someone to shed their responsibility because they probably don't want to go through labor and childbirth. Get real... a fetus isn't just a polywog in a spcimen jar, it's a human baby right from conception. That's when life begins... at conception.

Birth control can be up to 99% effective, and that's good enough for me. Nothing in life is ever 100%, but these statistics are virtually safe from becoming pregnant. If more people were responsible and educated, there would be less unwanted births. Let's start with abstinence, the pill, the iud,the diaphram, the condom, spermicide, tubal tyes, and vasectomy to name a few.

I hate the double standard; murder a pregnant woman and you get charged with double homicide, but she can choose to have an abortion, which isn't murder?
I don't suppose it's murder if it's still developing in the women. Or before the 6 months, I don't really know but I think it should still be pro choice.

I hate the double standard; murder a pregnant woman and you get charged with double homicide, but she can choose to have an abortion, which isn't murder? No fair! :(

EDIT:I hate this double standard! http://abs.gprime.net/dsa.png

Yep...it sucks.

I hate the double standard; murder a pregnant woman and you get charged with double homicide, but she can choose to have an abortion, which isn't murder?
very good point

I hate the double standard; murder a pregnant woman and you get charged with double homicide, but she can choose to have an abortion, which isn't murder?

thats sucks
what if you murdered a woman who you didnt know was pregnant, but was and you almost got off the hook until they found out she was pregnant so you get extra charges which screws up your case

Well then, maybe you should just try to avoid murdering people...^_^

hmm yes
but what if it was AN ACCIDENT

Then it wouldn't be murder, but you could still have charges pressed on you.

Then it wouldn't be murder, but you could still have charges pressed on you.
Another Double standard?

Another Double standard?

no... read the thread. it would be manslaughter, depending on how pregnant she was (else nothing)

http://abs.gprime.net/dsa.png
Very creative.

Very creative.
Yes.

no... read the thread. it would be manslaughter, depending on how pregnant she was (else nothing)

oh yeah cos it was an accident...

oh yeah cos it was an accident...


well, yeah. it would be. he wouldn't mean to kill the baby.

So what would happen if he meant to kill the woman, but didn't mean to kill the baby?
murderslaughter?

Nope, I'm pretty sure that he would get in trouble for killing the baby, if he meant to kill its mother.

If you meant to kill the baby and you killed the mother, no you would not get in trouble, it twas and accident.

It's still murder. :closedeye

Manslaughter.

Who would want to kill the baby but kill the mother. That's almost deliberate manslaughter

What if you killed the woman because you hate fat people, but didn't realize she was just pregnant?

Well then you get the double standard because you intentionally killed the woman.

pro choice to an extent: no women can have an abortion unless: they were raped or had any sperm fertilize an egg in her body w/o her consent

the mother dies to make our species survive, abortion isn't the way to save our species

Well then you get the double standard because you intentionally killed the woman.

double standard? where?

you intentionally killed the woman, only to kill the woman. not the baby.

What if you killed the woman because you hate fat people, but didn't realize she was just pregnant?

There's a bit of a difference between pregnant women and fat women.

double standard? where?

you intentionally killed the woman, only to kill the woman. not the baby.
Murder a pregnant woman and you get charged with double homicide.
.

but that isn't my opinion... you're just quoting two different views that contradict each other. that's not a double standard.

but that isn't my opinion... you're just quoting two different views that contradict each other. that's not a double standard.
Abortion isn't murder, but killing the baby inside a mother is?


double standard

n : an ethical or moral code that applies more strictly to one group than to another

We know what double standard is.

Abortion isn't murder, but killing the baby inside a mother is?


double standard

n : an ethical or moral code that applies more strictly to one group than to another

But that isn't what i'm saying. I'm saying abortion is ok, and killing the baby isn't murder (unless it's after the maximum abortion age).

But that isn't what i'm saying. I'm saying abortion is ok, and killing the baby isn't murder (unless it's after the maximum abortion age).

The only problem I have with abortion is we allow stupid people ot have them. Ive personally met women who have gotten abortions because they didn't want to miss a concert because of the child. Abortion shouldn't be a option of wanting to "opt-out" because you don't feel like it. Don't want a child? Don't have unprotected sex.

ProTip: Watching "A Clockwork Orange" doesn't make you "cool".

and there are some sickos who want to abort just for the sake of killing something/someone.

The only problem I have with abortion is we allow stupid people ot have them. Ive personally met women who have gotten abortions because they didn't want to miss a concert because of the child. Abortion shouldn't be a option of wanting to "opt-out" because you don't feel like it. Don't want a child? Don't have unprotected sex.

ProTip: Watching "A Clockwork Orange" doesn't make you "cool".

even if women have protected sex with a condom though, the condom could break, but whose fault should it be when it does?

even if women have protected sex with a condom though, the condom could break, but whose fault should it be when it does?

Have you ever been to a abortion clinic? I didn't think so. When you go you'll meet three kinds of women. The somber silent ones, who you can tell after much thought came to this as their last option. The crying ones, who wish they had other options. And finally the "breeze" ones, who act like they something better to do, and this is taking too much time. Usually if you ask these girls why they are there its for superficial reasons like, "I don't want to gain weight" or "I want to take a vacation to Hawaii". You'll meet 2 times as many superficial over anyone else. I'm not saying everyone should be denied a abortion, but we definitely need a filter system. When you have sex, you have to understand that theres always a chance of pregnancy, disregarding that idea is going to only screw you over.

But I guess, some people don't care. So the answer to your question is its the unborn child's fault. That is who you are punishing.

But that isn't what i'm saying. I'm saying abortion is ok, and killing the baby isn't murder (unless it's after the maximum abortion age).
Well you think that killing the baby isn't murder but that's not what the law thinks and apparently it isn't fair like that.

yup, especially with that case of Scott Peterson who killed that woman and her unborn child

In some cases, the law that protects us also screws us over pretty badly.

It depends how you treat it. At least we don't have death penalty in Australia.

It depends how you treat it. At least we don't have death penalty in Australia.

America is too lenient on their death penalty.

ProTip: Watching "A Clockwork Orange" doesn't make you "cool".

Neither does being a twat. It's not your business if a woman wants to abort her own child.

So the answer to your question is its the unborn child's fault. That is who you are punishing.

You are punishing? By not allowing abortion, does that mean you're not punishing? It's not YOU who's punishing or not. Nobody is being punished anyawy. If you run over a 3 year old girl in the street, do you get imprisoned for the deaths of the children she could of had? No. It's all a case of "oh, she might have a baby sooner than she would have a month ago, so tough luck". Something like abortion shouldn't be chosen by 'da man'. Your lack of morality and anti-feminism is clear; all you're saying is that people who don't know the situations fully should be the judge and jury of weather a life is created or not. The one person who would have the best and most complete interpritation of their own story, and what is likely to happen to the poor kid that is unwanted is the mother. The mother should have the choice of weather they create a life or not. You can't end a life before it's born.

Neither does being a twat.

Oh yay, I love your kind of debaters. You like to label the other person with no evidence so it makes your case stronger. Or it makes you feel better. Whatever.

It's not your business if a woman wants to abort her own child.
Where did I say it was my business? First off my business is what I want it to be. Second off I clearly stated that some individuals should have the right revoked. These people are outlandishly using their right to abort, not as the procedure was originally intended for. Go read again before you flip out and attack me again.

You are punishing? By not allowing abortion, does that mean you're not punishing?
Read what frookie said again buddy, here ill make it easy on you ok? But you have t promise to read all the way through this time. No short cuts! "even if women have protected sex with a condom though, the condom could break, but whose fault should it be when it does?" So whose fault do you think it is? The Guy's? The Girl's? The child is aborted. The child doesn't get a say, he/she has to be at fault, because he is destroyed to fix the problem.

If you run over a 3 year old girl in the street, do you get imprisoned for the deaths of the children she could of had? No. It's all a case of "oh, she might have a baby sooner than she would have a month ago, so tough luck".

What kind of argument is this? Are you just rambling or trying to make a counterpoint? Did I say people who get a abortion should be executed or imprisoned? No. I said certain rights should be revoked. Rape victims should be able to get abortions, if the woman's life is in danger because of birth she should be given a abortion, and other cases should be allowed... but not all.

Your lack of morality and anti-feminism is clear

Oh wow, cheap punches. I think its bad for people to abort a child for lame reasons that might ruin a plan like "going to a concert" or "I just don't feel like another child" and its bad for a child who can STILL FEEL PAIN and has NO SAY IN THE DECISION OF HIS LIFE OR DEATH. I'm definitely a immoral *****. And my anti-feminism? Oh yeah... thats me, down with women! I'm all for woman's rights thank you very much. Ive volunteered time at a womans battered shelter, and has always been assertive for equal pay and equal opportunities.

The mother should have the choice of weather they create a life or not.

Sweet, should we let off all the women who kills their own children? I mean they did bring them into this world, maybe they don't want them anymore.


Come on Alex, most of your past responses seemed well structured and thought out... what happened?

Abortion is fine until the age of 27 weeks.After that,no.

Abortion is fine until the age of 27 weeks.After that,no.

Has anyone here actually considered that women might be aborting the baby for the better of the baby?

Has anyone here actually considered that women might be aborting the baby for the better of the baby?

Then adoption is the answer. Thousands of parents want children. Because the number of children compared to the amount of parents who want them the process goes real slow... so parents jump ship and goto the East to adopt.

Right then. We'll play it your way. I'll quote every argument you had, and contradict it, weather it's a good argument or not.

Oh yay, I love your kind of debaters. You like to label the other person with no evidence so it makes your case stronger. Or it makes you feel better. Whatever.
Oh? I was just copying what you did. Prehaps we're alike.


Where did I say it was my business? First off my business is what I want it to be. Second off I clearly stated that some individuals should have the right revoked. These people are outlandishly using their right to abort, not as the procedure was originally intended for. Go read again before you flip out and attack me again.
"First off my business is what I want it to be. "
Excactly; you're forcing this thing to be your business.

"Second off I clearly stated that some individuals should have the right revoked."
Ditto. Why make this point, when i was talking about something that related to it anyway?

"Go read again before you flip out and attack me again."
If you flip out and attack me, it's eye for eye mate.


Read what frookie said again buddy, here ill make it easy on you ok? But you have t promise to read all the way through this time. No short cuts! "even if women have protected sex with a condom though, the condom could break, but whose fault should it be when it does?" So whose fault do you think it is? The Guy's? The Girl's? The child is aborted. The child doesn't get a say, he/she has to be at fault, because he is destroyed to fix the problem.
Finally... Let's get on subject again. It's nobody's fault. Nobody should be punished. A baby isn't a person so destroy it, to make as few victims as possible.


What kind of argument is this? Are you just rambling or trying to make a counterpoint? Did I say people who get a abortion should be executed or imprisoned? No. I said certain rights should be revoked. Rape victims should be able to get abortions, if the woman's life is in danger because of birth she should be given a abortion, and other cases should be allowed... but not all.

The point you are refering to here was actually continuing from a discussion i was having about what would happen to a person who has killed a mother and baby (unknowingly, in the latter case). I was illustrating an analogy, about how the law does work, and how it's the law that's using double standard, not me.


Oh wow, cheap punches. I think its bad for people to abort a child for lame reasons that might ruin a plan like "going to a concert" or "I just don't feel like another child" and its bad for a child who can STILL FEEL PAIN and has NO SAY IN THE DECISION OF HIS LIFE OR DEATH. I'm definitely a immoral *****. And my anti-feminism? Oh yeah... thats me, down with women! I'm all for woman's rights thank you very much. Ive volunteered time at a womans battered shelter, and has always been assertive for equal pay and equal opportunities.
Punches are punches... Still, why do you care? Why do you make it your business to care if bunches of cells are being destroyed for a woman to go to a concert? It's HER choice. Not the cells' or even yours!


Sweet, should we let off all the women who kills their own children? I mean they did bring them into this world, maybe they don't want them anymore.

No, by the time they are born, it's certainly too late.


Come on Alex, most of your past responses seemed well structured and thought out... what happened?
... I watched a clockwork orange.

Blah blah blah "I believe a fetus in any stage before pregnancy is a bunch of cells"

So the only thing you refuted was that you thought a fetus was a bunch of cells, so it's ok to destroy cells. But sir every living thing is composed of cells. Trees, birds, you, me, grass, should I keep going?


You want to see a deranged movie thats pushes limits? Go watch Irreversible, but I don't recommend it as no one at your age should be subjected to that movie or any age for that matter (though its still a great piece of cinema).

Blah blah blah! I think abortion is ok, and that only fags don't agree!

See? It's not fair to quote things that arn't quotes. Even if they are true or not. Sir. I do belive that a fetus is a bunch of cells. So is every living thing. Cells are cells. The thing that seperates them is life. Stop contradicting yourself.

Being alive and being unborn are different things? No?

Why don't you just drop the whole "a clockwork orange" thing? It's a good film. End of. I'm not obsessed with it, and i'm certainly not offended that there is a film that pushes limits more. Even though a clckwork orange isn't made to push limits. Fool.

See? It's not fair to quote things that arn't quotes. Even if they are true or not. Sir. I do belive that a fetus is a bunch of cells. So is every living thing. Cells are cells. The thing that seperates them is life. Stop contradicting yourself.

Being alive and being unborn are different things? No?

Why don't you just drop the whole "a clockwork orange" thing? It's a good film. End of. I'm not obsessed with it, and i'm certainly not offended that there is a film that pushes limits more. Even though a clckwork orange isn't made to push limits. Fool.

Ok wtf? I summed up your whole response so it didn't waste space. You have only one thing in that garbage of a response I needed to respond too. And once again you made another dumb statement. Heres something you didn't know, ALL CELLS ARE A LIVE. Do you think a fetus is composed of dead cells? I'm sick of your intelligence being absent from a response. Next time you argue something, make a actual point... I don't want to sift through another one of your pointless responses. Please tell me at what point a fetus becomes a child and it is miraculously given life? Oh wait, I shouldn't have asked a question, now ill never get a response that either a) makes sense and isn't crap or b) won't be changed into a insult.


Also you evidently know who Kubrick is as a director as all of his films as to push film as far as he can in all directions.

Ok wtf? I summed up your whole response so it didn't waste space. You have only one thing in that garbage of a response I needed to respond too. And once again you made another dumb statement. Heres something you didn't know, ALL CELLS ARE A LIVE. Do you think a fetus is composed of dead cells? I'm sick of your intelligence being absent from a response. Next time you argue something, make a actual point... I don't want to sift through another one of your pointless responses. Please tell me at what point a fetus becomes a child and it is miraculously given life? Oh wait, I shouldn't have asked a question, now ill never get a response that either a) makes sense and isn't crap or b) won't be changed into a insult.


Also you evidently know who Kubrick is as a director as all of his films as to push film as far as he can in all directions.

Ok, prehaps alive isn't clear; i mean self concious. A blob of phloem is alive, but not able to live.

Kubrick doesn't simply push limits. He makes points. He shows (to some) the different aspects of life in extreme situations, that might change views. A clockwork orange wasn't about violence. It was about human emotions, put in alien situations.

What a coincidence that our argument ties up with this.

Abortion has concequences. So does treating an ultra-violent young man.
Both solutions end a problem. Both are effective. Both may be in-human, but the fact remains. Both are effective.

Can we stop taking the piss out of each other's non-related arguments now?

Man, EVERYTHING that we do is going to end up with consequences. If we go up and kill some random person, that's going to affect the person's family, and we're going to get charged.

Man, EVERYTHING that we do is going to end up with consequences. If we go up and kill some random person, that's going to affect the person's family, and we're going to get charged.
nice contribution.

Thank you :D

Man, EVERYTHING that we do is going to end up with consequences. If we go up and kill some random person, that's going to affect the person's family, and we're going to get charged.
...of course you are going to get charged, you killed a man; that was a bad example.

so, if a woman has an abortion, is she committing a crime? if someone is killed for killing a woman and her unborn child and a woman can commit the same crime of killing her unborn baby

Yes...which is why the double standard sucks.

yup, this is one of those things that will keep on changing as our courts change

So you think we should keep it and make it the womens choice (pro choice) or should it be Illegal.
I vote Pro Choice.

**** you doushce bag, and everyone else that thinks a bortion is ok.

Killing a fetus, a cell, is extremely wrong. It's almost like taking a baby right when it's born from the mother, and cutting it up into 30 peices.

Ok, so you pobely think, "But what if she had sex and knew if she got pregnant she knew she wouldn't be able to support the baby?!" Well than she shouldn't of had sex in the first place.

But you also might be thinking rape. Well, most girls that get raped, dress very bad, like hoes. Would you want to rape some nasty, tired looking women who just got out of wrok at 2:00 AM? No, you would want a sleezy, easy to ****, girl that dresses like a hoe. And if she gets raped, it's her fault for walking down a creepy alley.

Now your thinking, but what if she got raped and survived? Well than in this case it would be ok to have an abortion. But most girls that get raped, die.

And finally; If she had an abortion, and knew she couldn't support the baby, and was sorry for having sex, was very sorry for having the abortion, wne't and told a priest, begged for his blessings, god would forgive her.

Abortion KILLS. Everyone that has an abortion deserves to die.

Yes...which is why the double standard sucks.

Wouldn't the killing of the baby be infanticide?

**** you doushce bag, and everyone else that thinks a bortion is ok.

Killing a fetus, a cell, is extremely wrong. It's almost like taking a baby right when it's born from the mother, and cutting it up into 30 peices.

Ok, so you pobely think, "But what if she had sex and knew if she got pregnant she knew she wouldn't be able to support the baby?!" Well than she shouldn't of had sex in the first place.

But you also might be thinking rape. Well, most girls that get raped, dress very bad, like hoes. Would you want to rape some nasty, tired looking women who just got out of wrok at 2:00 AM? No, you would want a sleezy, easy to ****, girl that dresses like a hoe. And if she gets raped, it's her fault for walking down a creepy alley.

Now your thinking, but what if she got raped and survived? Well than in this case it would be ok to have an abortion. But most girls that get raped, die.

And finally; If she had an abortion, and knew she couldn't support the baby, and was sorry for having sex, was very sorry for having the abortion, wne't and told a priest, begged for his blessings, god would forgive her.

Abortion KILLS. Everyone that has an abortion deserves to die.

You're completely wrong my friend. As i said before. So what if it kills? It's a victimless crime. Literally. You need to stop listening to your over sensitive emotions.

You're contradicting yourself with the whole "it's your own fault to get raped" thing; if there wasn't any '*****s' (people that arn't "easy to get") then the world would be pretty dull, eh? And you're wrong anyway. It's neither their fault that they get raped, nor their responsibility to dress down. If your girlfriend was going out with you night, and was trying a little hard to look nice, does that give the right to every rapist to do what they like? Are they allowed to just **** her senseless while you stand back and "let it go"?

Yes. Abortion kills. Who cares? Certainly not the baby. (evil laugh)

You don't care. The mother doesn't care. She's doing the lesser evil. It's NOT the baby's choice to be born as with all babys, so why force the 'choice' upon it, by allowing it to be born through the choice of the government?

Owned.

yup, that's why if a woman's raped and she can't do anything to stop it, she needs to have the right to have an abortion

*yawn*

People are getting too serious in this thread.

Abortion is a serious subject, plus the fact this is the debate forum.

True, but you don't have to bury someone just to prove your point.

Yeah, that's apparently one of the factors to debating. Which is to make your opponent look bad so you have more support from the people.

Or you can make them look so bad, that no one will care what you said, as long as you look like the smarter one.

Yeah, it works like that. But mostly debating is about getting the support, and as long as you have the most support you win, even if it means the people just think you look smarter than the other guy.

Exactly.

and drunken_shinobi just won that little debate... if you know what i mean?

lol

Abortion has to be regulated, only rape victims and oopsies (when the condom breaks) should be allowed to have abortions, other than that, it's not our fault that you took the risk

Well not condom breaks, I mean possibly the baby born from the result of a condom break could end up as a genius.

Well not condom breaks, I mean possibly the baby born from the result of a condom break could end up as a genius.

Yep. An the babies of rape are always retarded.

the whole condom breaking part is a major problem with abortion, you protected yourself but you still got preggers

Maybe they should just make the condoms less breakable, or the people shouldn't go so hard at it.

would you want an iron one?

There's also the part where you can just wear like more than one condom.

**** you doushce bag, and everyone else that thinks a bortion is ok.
Huh? You shut the fuck up.

Here's what I think on Abortion. It should be the mother's choice, but it depends on the desperation of the woman. If they can support it and they just don't want kids, then the clinics should think twice before giving the pill to them. If the couple are uber poor, and cannot support the child, then yes they should be able to abort the baby. To me, it's just about if they raise the child or not.

Here's what I think on Abortion. It should be the mother's choice, but it depends on the desperation of the woman. If they can support it and they just don't want kids, then the clinics should think twice before giving the pill to them. If the couple are uber poor, and cannot support the child, then yes they should be able to abort the baby. To me, it's just about if they raise the child or not.
Sigh...

They don't give a pill to abort a fetus. Depending on how many weeks its developed they will either use a vacuum or a cocktail of drugs to give the child a heart attack.

Man, there was this one abortion video where they were going to use a needle to like suck the insides out of the fetus to kill it. It was horrifying, I mean the needle was going through the mother and the doctor couldn't get anything because they baby was trying to get away from the needle. Now if I were the mother I would've stopped that abortion because if a baby can dodge an abortion needle or something, he could possibly be a genius or a guy that can dodge a lot of trouble. But other than that, the needle eventually got the baby and the baby died.

Man, there was this one abortion video where they were going to use a needle to like suck the insides out of the fetus to kill it. It was horrifying, I mean the needle was going through the mother and the doctor couldn't get anything because they baby was trying to get away from the needle. Now if I were the mother I would've stopped that abortion because if a baby can dodge an abortion needle or something, he could possibly be a genius or a guy that can dodge a lot of trouble. But other than that, the needle eventually got the baby and the baby died.

Phew. That MONSTER was killed before it was too late. Omen style ennit.

No, he would've been a good dodger of things. Like a natural, literally.

Do whatever you gotta do. Just because you had sex one time, that doesn't mean it should ruin the rest of your life.

Un-wanted pregnancy= un-happy child. Un-happy child= whacko. Whacko= Frookie. Frooke= serial killer.

Great deduction. If you're a baby and you can kill someone at that age does that make you a natural serial killer? Or if you know how to take care of yourself does that make you a super genius?

Ok, so you pobely think, "But what if she had sex and knew if she got pregnant she knew she wouldn't be able to support the baby?!" Well than she shouldn't of had sex in the first place.

But you also might be thinking rape. Well, most girls that get raped, dress very bad, like hoes. Would you want to rape some nasty, tired looking women who just got out of wrok at 2:00 AM? No, you would want a sleezy, easy to ****, girl that dresses like a hoe. And if she gets raped, it's her fault for walking down a creepy alley.

Now your thinking, but what if she got raped and survived? Well than in this case it would be ok to have an abortion. But most girls that get raped, die.

And finally; If she had an abortion, and knew she couldn't support the baby, and was sorry for having sex, was very sorry for having the abortion, wne't and told a priest, begged for his blessings, god would forgive her.

Abortion KILLS. Everyone that has an abortion deserves to die.

Wow. Are you serious? You can't truly believe all that... O_o

Great deduction. If you're a baby and you can kill someone at that age does that make you a natural serial killer? Or if you know how to take care of yourself does that make you a super genius?
Well you can't really figure that out for sure, like what I said about the baby having a chance at being a genius. I wasn't really too sure there, but you can't just say "Yes I surely believe this baby because he knows how to dodge abortion needles will be an evil serial killer genius like the unibomber." Obviously they let the kids get born because they're humane or they just couldn't afford the abortion so they had to get on with raising the child but they probably abused the child making him prone to most likely being a mentally deranged serial killer. Babies aren't born crazy, they can be raised to become crazy though. However, babies can be born as geniuses, but definatly not a crazy serial killer.

As am I, I think its great.

You make it sound like abortion is fun.

Do whatever you gotta do. Just because you had sex one time, that doesn't mean it should ruin the rest of your life.

Un-wanted pregnancy= un-happy child. Un-happy child= whacko. Whacko= Frookie. Frooke= serial killer.

wow, I like how your sarcasm sucks in that Led, if I do become a serial killer, you're on the top of my hit list

wow, I like how your sarcasm sucks in that Led, if I do become a serial killer, you're on the top of my hit listwait a minute...did i just catch you in another blatent contradiction? I bellieve you recently told me to "take a lesson in sarcasm from led". Hmmmm...

Easy, fellas we don't want anyone brawling. We all know how Led is, and what he's got against others.
EDIT: Another spelling error Napalm :P

wait a minute...did i just catch you in another blatent contradiction? I bellieve you recently told me to "take a lesson in sarcasm from led". Hmmmm...

you just have to act quickly to get into his last class because he's losing his edge on sarcasm

abortion: keep it legal, make it so that there are guidelines though

now to argue those guidelines

Did that pr0n guy seriously say that it's the girl's fault if she gets raped!?!? Wow what is this world coming to...

an end eventually

and how the hell is it the girl's fault if she gets raped and can't do anything about it, Oprah had a special on today about sex slaves and rape and all of that stuff

What if she wasn't supposed to be there in the first place and she just got raped?

http://forumspile.com/Thread-Direction.jpg

That always happens, so deal with it.

He's implying that it occurs too often.

He's implying that it occurs too often.they eat aborted feduses' in china. THINK OF THE CHINESE!!!

http://www.svnl.net/dien_dan/upload/monankinhdi/china_bloodybaby_02.jpg

they eat aborted feduses' in china. THINK OF THE CHINESE!!!

****


That's not cool. And you spelled fetus wrong.

They seriously do, and I'm not with any of that. I just think it's plain gross to abort a child just so you can have a good meal.

Goddam those chinese!

Yes, that's what communist china does with some of the babies they abort by law.

they eat aborted feduses' in china. THINK OF THE CHINESE!!!

http://www.svnl.net/dien_dan/upload/monankinhdi/china_bloodybaby_02.jpg (http://www.svnl.net/dien_dan/upload/monankinhdi/china_bloodybaby_02.jpg)
WHAT'S THAT GOT TO DO WITH MY POST????!!!

Absolultely nothing, so don't type in caps.

It scared the hell out of me...

Well it is kind of scary but it looks mostly just gross to me.

Yes, that's what communist china does with some of the babies they abort by law.
They don't do that.What they really do is leave them out into the mountains to die.

They don't do that.What they really do is leave them out into the mountains to die.
Well come on, they eat fetus like as a meal. Chances are some of them are freshly aborted, some by law because the mother has one child already.

Yes, that's what communist china does with some of the babies they abort by law.

Thanks to over population.

Inhumane, but to them it's necessary.

I heard they chuck 'em in bins.

I heard they chuck 'em in bins.no

thats why the safest thing is to keep your pants on

Well it's impossible to do that, you're going to have to do it someday. Unless you remove all the hormones in your body that make you like other girls out of impulse, which is like not possible. The safest you can get to is a condom, the most safest method from AIDs and birth control.