For some time now there's been an uprising phenomenon amongst young girls (and some boys) all over the world, though mainly the UK and U.S., called pro-ana or pro-mia. These people take pride in the fact that they have eating disorders, and even go to online forums to talk amongst themselves about never eating. They encourage each other to "stay strong" and to never eat, and feel that they are right in what they're doing because it's their body and they can do what they want with it. People who go onto these forums go to find/give each other tips on how to lose weight more effectively, and how to hide their disorder from family and friends. They find comfort in the fact that they can talk to other people who share their disorder, and it helps them stay more motivated. Which it probably does.

They also have what called "thinspiration", which is when girls and guys with eating disorders obsessively look up photos of practically emaciated men and woman (mostly runway models) who weigh an average of -90lbs and try to look exactly like them, thinking that the people in such photos are "perfection", and that anything less than (or more, in this case) what they look like is fat and ugly. The strange thing however, is that generally the people who look at these photos are already just as thin or thinner then the people in them.

Most people are outraged by this, particularly people who are in recovery from eating disorders, and feel it's making a mockery out of the seriousness of the issue. Encouraging young impressionable girls everywhere to shorten their not even begun lives for the sake of being able to fit into skinny jeans.

Whereas people who are pro ana/mia say that they are completely harmless in what they are doing, saying that they aren't forcing anyone to actually come onto their sites... and that when someone announces that they're going into recovery, the people on the forum encourage that person to get well soon and are with them every step of the way. Thing is, however, even though generally there is maybe one section at the very bottom of the page that has to do with recovery, all the other content has to do with the exact opposite.

Athough a majority of the people who go to pro ana sites feel guilty for what they are doing, less than half of them seem to be able to ever stop their addiction to weight loss, and can't help bot go back each day. Not to mention the rest who think what they are doing is perfectly fine.

Here are a few outlooks on the matter...

Two articles:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16098915/site/newsweek/

http://www.btinternet.com/~virtuous/planetgrrlbabe/babearticles/wasting_away_on_the_web.htm

And two pro-ana sites:

http://forum.houseofthin.com/index.php?sid=70b76b96bcc7e442d9596015234daccf

http://www.proana.me.uk/forum/index.php

Unfortunately you would have to register if you wanted to see any posts... but the titles alone should give you an overall picture of what goes on in those places.

So... erm.... thoughts? Comments? Oppinions?

People have the right to do what they want with there bodies and I think its ok. When it becomes an obsession though its just weird.

I personally don't think what they're doing is right though... I mean, even though they aren't "technically" making 13-year-old girls go onto their sites, you still have to keep in mind that they are extremely impressionable, not to mention under their parents' authority's. If you have to encourage someone to hide something from their parents and friends, especially something that can kill you in a matter of months, I'm pretty certain something should be done about it. Plus, I'm pretty certain that 13 isn't as young as they get on those sites. I'm sure a lot of them lie about a LOT of things, being that that's what eating disorders to to a person. They probably come as young as 8 or 9... and they just act like 13/15 year-olds.

Yea...I know all about this...
A good friend of mine is really scaring me...:(

Well that's a crapper... Are you saying he/she goes to pro ana sites too? I've never had a friend with an eating dis-

I guess thinking about it I wouldn't probably know either way would I.

Well that's a crapper... Are you saying he/she goes to pro ana sites too? I've never had a friend with an eating dis-
I guess thinking about it I wouldn't probably know either way would I.
Not just going to those sites, also she's in the habit of posting very creepy rants online about how "She wants to be nothing...skin and bones...perfect" and lots of really weird crap. I'm worried about her, shes under the impression that she's fat when really, the most she ways on any given day is probably 130-135.

Erm... people who say thinks like wanting to be skin and bones more than likely learned that terminology from pro ana sites. I only see pro ana people say stuff like that.

Does she have any idea what happens to your body if you don't eat properly? You know, aside from DIEING. O_o There's also liver failure, hair loss, memory loss, thinning of bones, tooth decay, heart failure... just to name a few.

Erm... people who say thinks like wanting to be skin and bones more than likely learned that terminology from pro ana sites. I only see pro ana people say stuff like that.
Yea, I know.

Oh... I read your post wrong. I thought you said "No, just going to those sites"... like she was only observing the threads out of fascination or something. Silly mistake. not sure how I could have missed the "t".

Not sure if y'all realize this, but more boys than girls are anorexic. This may not seem likely, but it's true. There's a difference between a complex and a disorder. A complex is something in your mind that doesn't affect your body, at least not directly. A disorder can be any combination between a problem with your body or a problem with your mind, or just a problem with your body, but that's more commonly known as a disease or a virus.

That being said, most girls in the US and UK have the 'must be thin, unrealistic self-image' complex, but not as many actually have an extreme form of the complex, known as anorexia. When boys develop the complex, it develops into the disorder more quickly and commonly than in girls.

EDIT: the figure was for kids between the ages of 4 and 11 years old.

I thought it was 8-10... oh well, I guess I could just google it. Though I'm probably not going to.

I am anorexic and proud

Here is a picture of me

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/271500/271933NsVR_w.jpg

I also had a sex change

Wow ur so thin!!! :sad:

omg no wai now i must be tat thin now

i'm gonna go on these sites and proclaim my love for meat and all things fatty and wholesome!

Don't forget coconut products. Coconut oil and other things coconut have more fat than...I dunno...God.

god is fat?

He could be, how could any one know?

hmm.... true....

Even if He wasn't... God is sorta the largest being there ever was... even if He were muscular He'd still have more body fat than the fattest man alive.

God isn't a man...

Well God certainly isn't a woman either. Not sure if He's both. Or perhaps neither. But then why is He referred to always as the "Father", "Him", and "He"?

Because christianity was founded by a bunch of misogynists. You do realize that in the good ol' bible days, the idea of a woman holding any sort of power was considerd absurd and blasphemous, as we can see colorfully illustrated by the brick testament (http://www.thebricktestament.com/epistles_of_paul/instructions_for_women/1co11_04.html)!
http://www.thebricktestament.com/epistles_of_paul/instructions_for_women/1tm02_11-12.jpg
1 Timothy 2:11-12
During instruction, a woman should be quiet and respectful. I give no permission for a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. A woman ought to be quiet.

1 Corinthians 14:33
As in all the churches of God's holy people, women are to remain quiet in the assemblies, since they have no permission to speak: theirs is a subordinate part.

The truth is, if anyone even brought up the idea of God being a female entity, they'd probably be excommunicated, executed, and ex-everything elesed.

PS Don't say something along the lines of "Is all you know about the bible from that site?" because the answer is no, I have actually read the bible, not in it's entirity because I skipped over a few boring parts, but much of it. I simply like the Brick Testament because it illustrates everything consicely and to the point.

Oh, and another thing, none of this is meant to be taken in offense. Basically if you have a problem with what I say, I don't really care because it's just an opinion. I'm not stupid enough to think I'm actually right about anything. Being an existentialist, I never look at anything subjectively, always objectively. Preconcieved notions are a bad thing in my mind, and I believe anything and everything should be open to debate and examination from an irreverant standpoint.

PS: oh yea, most of this stuff is from the old testament, I know, but after Jesus and friends came around all of it still applied to most people. When the Pope and his cardinals and whatnot used to sit around at those meetings and things the old testament applied just as much as ever. Why do you think there are never any power wielding women among the likes of cardinals and popes and bishops and whatnot?

Hmm... this gives me a thread idea.

Since it says that God created humans (male and female) in his image then he is fully male and fully female. Either that or gender just doesn't apply to him.

And whether Christianity is even valid or not is a completely different argument... I'm just saying what I know.

Since it says that God created humans (male and female) in his image then he is fully male and fully female. Either that or gender just doesn't apply to him.
And whether Christianity is even valid or not is a completely different argument... I'm just saying what I know.
Of course, for the purposes of debates of we often accept Christianity as valid as to keep the debate as specific as possible.

I feel ashamed for a number of reasons right now. One, for starting this argument. I would like to say that any quantity of anything can be compared to how much of that thing God has, because God has all of everything. When you compare quantities with God, you're really making a statment.

For example, Josh Freese has more platinum albums than God.

Two, for being a member of a board where any tiny mention of God in a sentence fires up the ol' debate muscles of the other members. People, this is just sad.

But, for the sake of the argument (and I know all you hold my opinion valuable), how do we know what God thinks? That's what I've always wondered. I know the bible is the word of God, or at least the OT is, but did God really 'tell' the Spaniards to kill millions of Africans because they didn't believe with them, or for that matter would he really even approve of them doing that? And is there any part of the bible that says there is an exception to the commandment of 'Thou shalt not kill?' Did God ever say that women were lesser forms of humans, or did some of his disciples and prophets just have it wrong?

It confuses me how different religions can be and still call themselves Christianity. I don't understand how all the different sects can have all their different practices and beliefs and it's all under the word of God. To me, it seems like someone somewhere has to be doing something wrong.

I feel ashamed for a number of reasons right now. One, for starting this argument. I would like to say that any quantity of anything can be compared to how much of that thing God has, because God has all of everything. When you compare quantities with God, you're really making a statment.
For example, Josh Freese has more platinum albums than God.
Two, for being a member of a board where any tiny mention of God in a sentence fires up the ol' debate muscles of the other members. People, this is just sad.
But, for the sake of the argument (and I know all you hold my opinion valuable), how do we know what God thinks? That's what I've always wondered. I know the bible is the word of God, or at least the OT is, but did God really 'tell' the Spaniards to kill millions of Africans because they didn't believe with them, or for that matter would he really even approve of them doing that? And is there any part of the bible that says there is an exception to the commandment of 'Thou shalt not kill?' Did God ever say that women were lesser forms of humans, or did some of his disciples and prophets just have it wrong?
It confuses me how different religions can be and still call themselves Christianity. I don't understand how all the different sects can have all their different practices and beliefs and it's all under the word of God. To me, it seems like someone somewhere has to be doing something wrong.
Thats a different argument but I agree with you mucho lotso.

Well God certainly isn't a woman either. Not sure if He's both. Or perhaps neither. But then why is He referred to always as the "Father", "Him", and "He"?The Pope Hates you now.

wow. nearly an entire page and a half has brewed up over a three letter word that someone said.....
are people really that touchy on religion?

Why don't we just make a sticky thread for the sole purpose of arguing religion... in every sub forum.

wow. nearly an entire page and a half has brewed up over a three letter word that someone said.....
are people really that touchy on religion?
Well....discussing religion is fun.

Speaking of which, I just saw something on The Colbert Report where Colbert said that the Pope issued a decree in the Vatican saying that nobody is allowed to flaunt items of extreme expense for the sake of their own glamour or inciting envy in others. So basically, Ferraris and Diamond jewelry are now banned from the Vatican.

really?

No. I'm a compulsive liar and I just made all that up so I could impress you guys. Ya caught me.

Yes. Really.

Poor people, but these sites are stupid they are celebrating their mental illnesses what's next a pro-schizophrenia site.

There are sites supporting people with third nipples.

they cant help it.....

That's retarded. Can you just imagine a third nipple pride day? With parades and crap? Pretty soon there'll be civil rights marches on discrimination against people with more than two nipples. And coming out of the nipple closet. It'll be the new bi.

The longer I think about it the less I take it seriously.

Pro-ana sites are kind of contridictory. I've seen one run by this girl who rants about how much she hates anorexia, how it controls her life and how's she tried and failed to eat normally, even showing pictures of people Photoshopped to look more "pretty" or look skinny to the point where their bones are showing, in an effort to prove that most thinspiration photos are fake. At the same time, however, she gives tips to anorexia people and shows a list of foods that can fill people up for few calories. (She calls low-fat yogurt a "treat").

http://www.pro-ana-nation.com

Bleagh... makes me think of the Uglies trilogy.......

Oh lord...my girlfriend and my little sister both read those. I opened one once and I think stabbing my eyes out would have been a little more appealing than reading that book. It looked...disgusting. Like one of those 'every-girl's-guilty-pleasure' books.

It took me about half a year to finally get around to reading the first one. I ended up finishing it in approximately a day. It's nothing like I expected though. Nothing on the cover hints at all that this series is science fiction. And there's action and blood and fighting and death... I thought it was going to be like "High school cliques to the extreme" or something. O_o With maybe a hint of fantasy. It takes about two and a half chapters for the book to get interesting though... But I kind of hate the main character. She's one of those opinionated narrow-minded type main characters. I found it difficult to like her throughout most of the book.

A good author makes it easy to love or hate the round characters.

Depends...

I am the only female I know who is not hopelessly insecure about my body weight... it annoys me to no end

Japanese females, on average, seem the most sane when it comes to worrying about body weight.

That's because they're so naturally and effortlessly slender...

they only eat sushi and fish......
its almost impossible to get fat on that........

Unless you eat far too much, which is how they get sumo wrestlers.

they only eat sushi and fish......

And rice.

And soy sauce

And Wasabi..!

Ugh. Wasabi.

I had this hot sauce once, and it made me really queasy. When I read the bottle, it said that it could strip paint off cars. STRIP. PAINT. OFF. CARS.

O_O.... that's nasty.

I know a kid who drinks hot sauces plain. There's a big festival in my town every year, and a big part of it is making hot sauces and tasting them. Most people try three samples and they're done. My friend tries and rates everyone's sauces and then goes and does a jalapeno eating contest. I don't get it.

Is he Mexican?

No, quite American, actually. Napolean Dynamite incarnate.

I see we've gone off topic, which would make anything I have to say about the original topic irrelevant, but Here it goes:

One time I stumbled upon a thinspiration video and didn't know what it was, so I started it. It's so terrible. Like Nicky said it show pictures of totally emaciated girls, saying how they want to be "perfect like them." It's so sad.

I think it's 3/4 due to the media. When was the last time you saw a woman with hips or real boobs in a lingerie show or the runway? Or in movies, where is the sexy voluptuous leading lady? I really want to get real models to strut their stuff in my clothes once I'm a famous designer.

I wish that the world would quit with this fad, and adopt the Dove "Every Body" view. I always feel awkward too...since I'm naturally thin. (5' 5" 105 pounds) I always feel unhealthy, even though I eat good and right. It sucks ass.

Victoria's Secret has relatively "real looking" women in their run ways. I mean, they're still EXTREMELY toned... but at least they still have fat on their bodies. You can't see their bones or anything. >_<

(gwia... contain yourself)
http://lifestyle.sympatico.msn.ca/images/Feeds/Prints/WireImage/PHOTO_GALLERY_VICTORIASSECRET2006/Alessandra_Mazur_11421253_600.jpg

http://l.yimg.com/img.tv.yahoo.com/tv/us/img/site/62/29/0000036229_20061201125239.jpg

http://www.frenchtruckers.com/img/bikinis-victorias-secret-beach-sexy.jpg

http://pandoraatl.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/gisele-3.jpg

And as to you're whole weight problem, I suppose you could join a weight gain program or something... not sure if they'd make you eat meat though. I actually have no idea how one could gain weight with vegan food. If not that then I guess you could just go nuts with exercise and gain a TON of muscle. It's unusual to see a modern American girl complain about being too skinny... O_o My sisters do that too sometimes.

Yea I don't enjoy being freakishly skinny either.

Nicky: yeah, they are. But still. People get "toned" confused with "thin" and go nuts.
And it's not that I need to gain weight, vegans weigh at least 10% less than everyone else on average...It's just I feel too skinny sometimes, even though I'm okay. I guess it's just a reverse body image thing.

I notice I feel fine when I'm around my friends that are like me, no natural curves, but when I'm around some of my friends that have hips and breasts I feel peakish. Plus, I've always been naturally bony. (like above my boobs I'm bony. bleh.) So it's a lovely combination as you can see. *sigh*

Seeing as how we're discussing the female body, I should hardly think my input as a male would be quite valuable.

You don't realize, your input is actually quite valuable.

Hmmm. Well in that case, where should I start? Pool parties. That's a good place. You can just see the insecurity and awkwardness on most girls' faces, even the freaking hottest ones there. At pool parties, girls stare at other girls' bodies more than guys stare at all the girls' bodies. It's almost like they're observing competition. I think it's funny, personally, but I also realize all this insecurity about how other girls look is extremely damaging. Frankly, it's only the really pretty, popular girls that act the way I described at the parties. Normal girls who don't look as insanely perfect, but still even good, are always the ones who can act natural at those parties, and are always the most fun to be around. I've been going out with miss pretty popular for years, and I've been through all kinds of weight stress and drama. Quite honestly, that's the one thing about girls I don't even pretend to understand. I've always looked the way I want to, and I know girls who probably couldn't have a better body if they tried. I don't ever really try to look better. If I started to look like crap and get all fat then I'd probably diet and excercise, but girls who look PERFECT are constantly trying to lose three, seven, or even ten pounds!

I've decided that an average teenage girl's body image is like an asymptotic value, which is a trend that continues toward an obvious destination or goal but will obviously never get there. I think that a girl keeps her unreal body image by keeping ideas of a utopia, of asymptotic values. Constantly setting new goals, even after the previous goal was reached. I really admire girls that don't keep those sorts of images. Again, those girls are the ones that aren't so insecure and constantly observing other girls. My idea of a perfect girl is the kind that's pretty and still secure.

That's the type of things more girls should hear from guys more often, but don't... because they're usually either too stupid to notice in the first place, or too immature to care if they do.

Well, what it comes down to is that there is no real definition to the word beauty. Really, all girls want to be beautiful, just some accept that fact, while others keep trying to make themselves "beautiful" trying to find whatever clues they can as to what beauty actually is. Of course with the "skinnier the better" fad recently taking place, seemingly the most obvious message of media and culture is that being skinny makes you pretty. I've tried to figure out why this had recently become popular, but I can't seem to figure it out.

In the end, in my opinion, these people are just trying to look beautiful to themselves, by listening to what other people tell them is pretty. This doesn't work, if you want to be beautiful, first you must define beauty for yourself, as with any other pursuit.


In my opinion, I think how skinny a girl is just should depend on what goes with her bone structure, skin tone, etc. That match matters more to me.

You don't realize, your input is actually quite valuable.
well in that case

sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sexy sex!

but seriously.
i don't believe that in order for women to look beautiful, they must weigh less that the average household pet. its not the size, its how you use it...... (this can apply to men also.)

It's not size it's how you use it...that's really good.

I won't lie. I find a slim girl more physically attractive than an overweight girl any day. And I promise I'm not alone. But what bothers me is the mentality behind staying skinny. It's like an obsession. I'm not complaining, I'm just observing the fact that it's probably mentally unhealthy to keep that sort of disposition.

What gussa said is very true. That's a mentality that can apply to a lot of things. You don't have to conform to the latest fad to be gorgeous. It's your attitude about yourself that makes you awesome. If you think you've got a great smile despite, or even because of your crossed front teeth, so will most everyone else. If you think you're sexy you'll soon come to find that "think" becomes "know". It's all a matter of perception.

Indeed.

sex...

Pr0n?

*forgot this is the debating forum...I can't spam useless crap, so now, a rant about something political.*

I don't like religion. It supresses self discovery and open mindedness. Well, not all religions, just the ones that are over obsessive and let the bible think for them. So by "religions" I really mean "Bible hugging freak cults...which doesn't mean all christians, baptists, ect.". Yep. Uh huh.

Just about.

Dammit. I did it again.

so how many off topic posts can we get before napalm deletes them?

I dunno...Let's see!

One potato!

Two potato.

dont delete me!




four!

Ta... tara ta... tara tara tara... Tarako.

Ta... tara ta... tara tara tara... Tarako.

Ta... tara ta... tara tara tara... Tarako.

Ta... tara ta... tara tara tara... Tarako.

Ta... tara ta... tara tara tara... Tarako.

What's the point of this?

we need to get as off topic as we can before napalm either deletes our posts or closes th thread...

Um... I don't want this thread closed.


BLAH!!!

so when he closes it, we just pm him and say well delete our posts or something.....

Pr0n?
*forgot this is the debating forum...I can't spam useless crap, so now, a rant about something political.*
I don't like religion. It supresses self discovery and open mindedness. Well, not all religions, just the ones that are over obsessive and let the bible think for them. So by "religions" I really mean "Bible hugging freak cults...which doesn't mean all christians, baptists, ect.". Yep. Uh huh.

It's funny, saying religion suppresses open-mindedness, when you are taking an extremely closed-minded view of religion....

Just shut up now. It's still early enough to pretend you didn't say anything.

I say you do like viper and go delete all your posts and start over. Turn a new leaf.

I'll give him a special award if he can do it correctly.

mmmmmmm....
off topic bagels are the best kind of bagels.....

I'm all for letting people die of their lifestyles.

... O_o

It's the persons choice, and if they die from it, It their fault.

I agree.

You only say that because there are no girls in a close relationship with you with an eating disorder (that you know of). Even if they are selfish in their decision, you're also being selfish by choosing not to help them.

My statement was general, it included all life styles and eating habits.

You only say that because there are no girls in a close relationship with you with an eating disorder (that you know of). Even if they are selfish in their decision, you're also being selfish by choosing not to help them.
Well, really, eating disorders are not always part of a person's lifestyle. It isn't a conscious choice, is what I really mean.

If someone smoked their whole life, they knew that they were probably going to get lung cancer. It's truly their fault that they're dying. And if someone starves them self to death because they want to be skinny, it's their fault. But a person actually has a mental or physical disorder they got from something other than their lifestyle and they die from it, it obviously is not their fault. But sometimes, it is difficult to distinguish between things people get from lifestyle and they contract on their own.

The fact that they are applying it to their life, makes it a part of their lifestyle. Be it conscious or subconscious. Which means that either way, you should at least try to help them out. And either way, there is something very wrong with a person who will willingly speed up their death process in order to achieve a temporary state of pleasure or satisfaction. Weather they are in control of it or not. Some people who willingly destroy their lives... MOST people who are willingly destroying their lives have zero hope for change if no one ever shows that they are cared for enough to be helped. Self-hatred is what drives people to do these types of things in the first place. If no one ever tries to tell them that they're good enough just the way they are, then they're not going to fix themselves.

Just because someone doesn't run out into the streets screaming for help doesn't mean they don't need it, or want it. It doesn't mean you should just ignore them either. You could be that ONE person they could have turned to and you decided not to because you couldn't be bothered with it. Even if they happen to be doing it for attention, doesn't change the fact that they're dieing and need help. How about learning a little something about a person before just passing them off as worthless. There was something in their life that caused them to be the way they are. People don't just wake up one day and go "Oh! I'm going to start cutting today!" or "Well gee... I am fat and ugly and I won't be pretty unless I'm skinnier than my 11-year-old sister!". Something (or someone) was consistently happening in their life that was leading up to that. Just because you handle problems a certain way doesn't mean everyone else will.

Not to be too highly critical, but that was spoken like a true Christian.

If someone brought a problem upon them self, they are little but a hindrance to society. I don't believe that anyone's tax dollars should go towards people like Lindsey Lohan and Britney Spears recovering from stupid self-induced drinking or herione stints. Because you know what? They don't learn shit. Society would gain more by just letting them die or fall from fame like Oedipus. Instead, the people of the United States are paying for spoiled little bitches to go learn absolutely nothing about the problems they refuse to accept...about the problems of which they do not even wish to be healed.

But, on the other hand, there are the people on the other side of the problem. The people who can barely afford the to pay rent or food because of a drug addiction that began because of the lack of ability to pay for said necessities. I do feel quite a bit more pity for such people than I do for the likes of Britney Spears, but...well....the people who live like that did bring it upon themselves, too.

What people don't understand is this: the government is paying drug dealers. All of the citizens of the United States are paying for a few of the citizens of the United States to do drugs.

The way your tax dollars are spent have nothing to do with people around you hurting themselves... I have to agree with Nicky on this one. Most of the problems people have in their lives are the result of something outside their own control. You can't just write someone off because they're an alcoholic, or drug addict, or a cutter, or bulemic, or whatever, because you never know what happened to them that made them that way. You can pump all the money in the world into rehab programs and whatnot, but until people actually start caring about each other, money isn't going to solve anybody's problems.

Maybe just letting those people "die off" would be better for society, but honestly is social darwinism more important to you than good morals, being a helping hand to the people around you? Our lives are pretty short and we'll all be dead before we see the effects of "good social darwinism" (which seems to be your stance but correct me if I'm wrong). I want what is better for my friends and family, and I could care less about celebrities, because they're an extremely small percentage of people "using up" our tax dollars.

Yes, that is a very good point, but I'm about 50/50 between social darwinism and good morals. There is nothing we will ever be able to do about curing alcoholism, or drug addiction. It's already illegal. School counselors already go to schools and tell kids not to do drugs. Health class is already required by most states. And I'm all for advertising against drug abuse. I just don't think it works. The most the government can do is crack down on drug law punishments, unless they want to make it illegal to mention booze and drugs in our media, which is unconstitutional. I think that the best way to eliminate substance abuse and addiction from our society is for people to see what happens. "Oh shit. (insert celebrity or close friend here) died after spending twelve years addicted to heroine and leading a disgusting, miserable life and ruining that of his/her children. Maybe I shouldn't do heroine."

I think that the only person capable of healing addiction, or refusing drugs, is oneself. A junkie can be thrown in a room full of people telling them the negative effects of drugs, and advertising posters and everything, but they're never going to want to stop using heroine or drinking until they decide for themself that it's what they want to do.

THE single most depressing and intriguing documentary I have ever seen in my life...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xcr3TAwglaw

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eyUdkBK-UHE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NU7HcIkfU2g

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oCmj78BfZfc

http://youtube.com/watch?v=a-W2zZH91w8

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XdC_dzPySTI

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1sj-oJFbmX0

Victoria's Secret has relatively "real looking" women in their run ways. I mean, they're still EXTREMELY toned... but at least they still have fat on their bodies. You can't see their bones or anything. >_<
(gwia... contain yourself)
http://lifestyle.sympatico.msn.ca/images/Feeds/Prints/WireImage/PHOTO_GALLERY_VICTORIASSECRET2006/Alessandra_Mazur_11421253_600.jpg
http://l.yimg.com/img.tv.yahoo.com/tv/us/img/site/62/29/0000036229_20061201125239.jpg
http://www.frenchtruckers.com/img/bikinis-victorias-secret-beach-sexy.jpg
http://pandoraatl.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/gisele-3.jpg
And as to you're whole weight problem, I suppose you could join a weight gain program or something... not sure if they'd make you eat meat though. I actually have no idea how one could gain weight with vegan food. If not that then I guess you could just go nuts with exercise and gain a TON of muscle. It's unusual to see a modern American girl complain about being too skinny... O_o My sisters do that too sometimes.
Fap.

...lol?

lolfap?

Can't gain weight with vegan food? You can eat as much cake as you want!